Council tenant - non secure tenancy

Walshy2011

Hello,

I am a council tenant with a non secure tenancy. I was given that type of tenancy as the property i live in was supposed to be 'temporary' as the local council said they would be regenerating the estate I live on so I was only supposed to be here for a few years, that was 6.5 years ago.

We have lots of antisocial behaviour in our block. Teenagers giving us constant problems, smashing windows, urinating in the communal areas, breaking the communal doors, takings drugs and generally being nuisances. The council say they are doing all they can to stop it but really all they're doing is wasting money changing the locks on the communal doors only for them to get broken within 24 hours. You'd think they put a different door in that the teenagers couldn't break. Other than changing the locks the council have opdone nothing else to stop this behaviour but of course they still expect full rent to live in unbearable conditions.

I seem to have very littles rights with this tenancy. I cannot do an exchange to another property. The only way I could ever move out of my flat is if I give up my tenancy, rent privately, or the council decide to start rebuiling the estate then I would have a new flat with a secure tenancy and would then hopefully be able to do an exchange. They've been threatening to do this since about 2004 though.

My aunty has asked if she can stay with me for a couple of months. Before I say yes I need to know if I'm allowed to have her stay with me. On my tenancy agreement it says I must not sub let part or all of my property or take in lodgers.

From what I understand sub letting is renting a property out to someone else whilst my name being on the actual tenancy agreement and a lodger is someone who pays rent to the tenant. If both these definitions are correct my aunty would be neither. If she comes she'll be staying on the sofa in the front room and I wouldn't expect her to pay me any rent, she's family and needs somewhere to live for a bit, if I can help her I will. To be honest I'd feel a lot safer having someone in the flat with me, what with the teenagers always hanging about outside my front door and walking along my bathroom skylight most nights!

I'd be most grateful if anyone has any advice on this please.

Thanks in advance.

Katie

Hammyman

Yes she can come to stay as a guest, family member, friend, even permanently living with you. As you said, you can't take someone in on a commercial basis.

moremore

Make sure they know about it as you will not be living alone and they will want full council tax, I am assuming that you are getting only 25% discount at present living alone, I think that should be 50% not 25% but there you go....Also you may be sure if you own council money that is the time they will send someone out to collect. They do not care about you being harassed by anti-social behaviour. But own then money and they will be there like a shot:money:

Walshy2011

Thank you for your replies.

Do I need to tell my housing officer I will have a relative staying with me?

Once I was sure my aunty could stay I was going to tell the council tax people. I certainly wouldn't want to get into trouble. As they say 'no good deed goes unpunished'.
My aunty said because her wages are low (haven't seen her payslip but £140 a week is what I think she said she gets) I might be able to get a second adult rebate if she moved in? Never heard of that until she mentioned it but providing her wages fit their criteria I think that may be an option. It's 25% discount as well, the same as the single person discount.
If I didn't get the second adult rebate could I ask my aunty to pay the extra 25% to make it up to the full council tax bill? Or would she then become a 'lodger' if she pays that 25% towards the council tax?
I really don't mind helping her but if I'm not entitled to the second adult discount I think she should pay the extra 25 % as it would only be due because she's there.

Just to confirm I can definitely have a family member stay with me even though I have a non secure tenancy? Sorry for asking again just want to make sure I won't get into trouble.

Thanks again.

Walshy2011

Also my rent account is 1 month in front and I'm not in any CT arrears. If I was entitled to the second adult rebate hopefully as the the same discount as the single person they could just switch it across with no hassle. If not hopefully they'll just up my monthly payments from December to March 2012, then after that sent me the installment amounts totalling the full council tax bill for the year. So as long as that goes smoothly I won't owe CT any money. I wouldn't like to be in that position as I know they're ruthless.

Thanks

henrik1971

Are you sure you don't have a secure tenancy? I have always been led to believe that if the landlord is a council and the letting is residential, then a secure tenancy arises whatever the Council might try and call it, especially as you've been in occupation for such a long time.

Conditions: To qualify as a secure tenancy, the following conditions must apply:

1. The Property = The dwelling-house must be let for residential purposes, and let as a separate dwelling.
2. The Landlord Condition = The landlord must be a Local Authority or other designated public body (as defined by HA 1985 s 80(1))
3. The Tenant Condition = The tenant must be an individual and occupy the dwelling as his or her only or principal home. If there are joint tenants, each must be an individual, and at least one of them must occupy the dwelling house as his or her only or principal home.

Exclusions:
Certain exceptions apply to this qualification. These include:

• Long tenancies (over 21 years and other limited types)
• Introductory Tenancies
• Premises occupied by way of employment
• Tenancies granted pursuant to a Local Authority's duties to provide temporary accommodation for homeless and asylum purposes.
• Tenancies of Agricultural holdings and licensed premises
• Tenancies to which the LTA 1954 PtII Applies (business tenancies)
• Student lettings

chez000

henrik1971 wrote: »

Are you sure you don't have a secure tenancy? I have always been led to believe that if the landlord is a council and the letting is residential, then a secure tenancy arises whatever the Council might try and call it, especially as you've been in occupation for such a long time.

This,

Temporary accommodation provided by the council perhaps as a result of a homeless investigation, would not be a secure tenancy but its not temporary if you have been there 6 1/2 years.

How did you get the flat?

squinty

henrik1971 wrote: »

Are you sure you don't have a secure tenancy? I have always been led to believe that if the landlord is a council and the letting is residential, then a secure tenancy arises whatever the Council might try and call it, especially as you've been in occupation for such a long time.

Conditions: To qualify as a secure tenancy, the following conditions must apply:

1. The Property = The dwelling-house must be let for residential purposes, and let as a separate dwelling.
2. The Landlord Condition = The landlord must be a Local Authority or other designated public body (as defined by HA 1985 s 80(1))
3. The Tenant Condition = The tenant must be an individual and occupy the dwelling as his or her only or principal home. If there are joint tenants, each must be an individual, and at least one of them must occupy the dwelling house as his or her only or principal home.

Exclusions:
Certain exceptions apply to this qualification. These include:

• Long tenancies (over 21 years and other limited types)
• Introductory Tenancies
• Premises occupied by way of employment
• Tenancies granted pursuant to a Local Authority's duties to provide temporary accommodation for homeless and asylum purposes.
• Tenancies of Agricultural holdings and licensed premises
• Tenancies to which the LTA 1954 PtII Applies (business tenancies)
• Student lettings

Not a complete list - the full list of circumstances where a council tenancy would not be secure is contained within schedule 1 of the 1985 Housing Act (with amendments)

This includes:

Land acquired for development

(1)A tenancy is not a secure tenancy if the dwelling-house is on land which has been acquired for development and the dwelling-house is used by the landlord, pending development of the land, as temporary housing accommodation.

(2)In this paragraph “development” has the meaning given by [F13section 55 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990] (general definition of development for purposes of that Act).

theartfullodger

There are usually 4 types of council tenancies in most Councils.. see...

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/council_tenancies

Introductory council tenancies

Most councils give new tenants an introductory tenancy for the first year. This is on a trial basis - you can be evicted very easily.

Secure council tenancies

You probably have a secure tenancy if you got your home through the waiting list and have lived there for at least a year. Secure tenants have strong rights.

Demoted council tenancies

Secure council tenancies can be downgraded to a demoted tenancy in some circumstances. This gives you similar status to an introductory tenant.

Temporary housing from the council

Living in temporary housing provided by the council after you made a homelessness application? This is not the same as having a council tenancy but you still have rights.

Can Aunty stay?? Well, chances are it will tell you the policy on lodgers, sharers, relatives in your tenancy agreement (read it??) or failing that look on your council's website - for example like here....
http://www.slough.gov.uk/services/982.aspx

I thought introductory, temporary or demoted tenancies "get better" if you don't upset the council after a bit - eg 12 or 18 months - and may automatically become Secure .. Again this was probably documented to you in the paperwork given to you when you moved in.,...

henrik1971

squinty wrote: »

Not a complete list - the full list of circumstances where a council tenancy would not be secure is contained within schedule 1 of the 1985 Housing Act (with amendments)

This includes:

Land acquired for development

(1)A tenancy is not a secure tenancy if the dwelling-house is on land which has been acquired for development and the dwelling-house is used by the landlord, pending development of the land, as temporary housing accommodation.

(2)In this paragraph “development” has the meaning given by [F13section 55 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990] (general definition of development for purposes of that Act).

I suppose its what you class as temporary. Some people, including the court may consider 6.5 years not to be temporary.
Also, it sounds like this is not 'acquired', this is a pre-existing local authority-owned block, not a 'failing' private estate which the Council have acquired by either CPO or negotiation for redevlelopment.

Squinty, you may be right of course, but its not unknown for Council's to try and offer very sparse agreements, such as a tenancy at will and hope people don't question the validity of such a situation.

squinty

henrik1971 wrote: »

Squinty, you may be right of course, but its not unknown for Council's to try and offer very sparse agreements, such as a tenancy at will and hope people don't question the validity of such a situation.

That a little disengenuous - its my understanding that most councils would rather keep secure lifetime tenancies rather than the flexible tenancies proposed by the government.