New sickness rules for gps?

hcb42

this thread might focus on those who are in need, however on the other side of the coin, it is a standing joke that you can go to the doctors, turn on the water works or claim to have a bad back or get signed off with depression. I guess it is that kind of malingering that needs to be addressed. I have awful sciatic pain but i holddown a responsible job working 48-50hrs, it would be very easy for me to get signed off if I chose to.

dark_lady

sunnyone wrote: »

It makes an even bigger mockery of the plans to give GP's multi million pounds budgets, how can they be trusted as they are such "pushovers" without the common sense to see a malinger sat on from of them?

Sorry sunnyone. I posted before i spotted your post. Thats what i was getting at too.

rogerblack

hcb42 wrote: »

this thread might focus on those who are in need, however on the other side of the coin, it is a standing joke that you can go to the doctors, turn on the water works or claim to have a bad back or get signed off with depression.

It being a standing joke, does not mean it's a particularly accurate one.
The DWP have done studies on fraud, and found very low levels.

Richie-from-the-Boro

rogerblack is correct : -

Fraud .. .. actual real figures for those readers with brains that work, and the source of those figures for prepared [ Daily Snail readers may not apply ] to put in the work.

Lets have a severe think about fraud & malingerers shall we !

Measured against what they don't tell you :

Then there is what is never claimed :

Or there are the Job Centre Accounts

Even a Toff who talks evidence based facts & truths

So lets have a look at these factual evidence based truth's shall we:


- they previously claimed that £5.2 billion fraud / and / or error cost each UK taxpayer approx £86pa

- - - the actual [ evidenced ] £1 billion for DWP & £0.6 billion for HMRC costing each UK taxpayer approx £26pa

- - - the official & customer error is £3.6 billion pounds costing each UK taxpayer approx £60pa

All benefit fraud is wrong, no one in this group will argue otherwise, but the tabloids who fed no doubt by ..~ GUESS Who ~ .. blame the high benefit bill on fraudsters when they account for less that 1% of the entire benefit bill.


So lets have a look at this entire benefits bill shall we:

- - - the total benefit bill UK is £190 billion pounds costing each UK taxpayer approx £3166 per year.

- - - the state pension / retirement benefits are approx 42% of the total benefit bill that's £79 billion costing each UK taxpayer approx £1316pa

Now 1% of the above figures is a lot of wonka going to the greedy fiddlers but its a tiny tiny minuscule fraction of the staggering amount going to waste and errors.

The problem here is the upcoming Universal Credit's new approach to Welfare Benefits has fed the Redtops scare stories for most of 2011 in order to divert attention from the real agenda which is simply to reduce spending for the treasury. This one (1) word fraud most often proclaimed is actually two (2) words .. .. fraud & error, Universal Credit will have an immense effect on the 'error' element of this waste, but less than 1% on the fraud element .. .. put simply because fraud was only 1% to start with and department error actually accounts for most of the waste. The Redtops and the 'DaftHeads' however will continue to believe what is pumped out daily because propaganda is always easier to digest than fact.

Fraud [ actual ] by this time next year will be three strikes and you are out :

- an instant civil penalty of £50 for those who fail, without good excuse, to report changes to personal circumstances
- where the DWP feel low level fraud could go to criminal proceedings, and individual will be offered a tough penalty plus four weeks loss of benefit to avoid the courts
- anyone convicted of criminal fraud will be, 1st strike three months loss of benefits 2nd strike a full six months loss of benefits
- benefit fraud recovery will go up to 25% of benefits deducted at source
- any working fraudster will have a DEA [ Direct Earnings Attachment ] applied to claw the money back to the treasury

I make the observation that no recipients of Welfare Benefit [ means tested or otherwise ] has the right to hold on to public money, [ 1% of fraud & error ] not intended for them, none, not one single element of the above measures address the [ 99% of fraud & error ] departmental error element.

colin13

totally disagree with this prropasal,,here was my situtation,,i have ms,,i worked in heavy industrry,,company doc ssaid i was unsafe on shop floor,and would be sutuble for office work,,but the company would not retrain me,,orr look for any suitable jobs,within ccompany,,so paid off,,the dwp said they would look at retraing etc,,but wott if company has no jobss to give you,,another case of tories hitting the vunrable

real1314

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

rogerblack is correct : -

Fraud .. .. actual real figures for those readers with brains that work, and the source of those figures for prepared [ Daily Snail readers may not apply ] to put in the work.

Lets have a severe think about fraud & malingerers shall we !

Measured against what they don't tell you :

Then there is what is never claimed :

Or there are the Job Centre Accounts

Even a Toff who talks evidence based facts & truths

So lets have a look at these factual evidence based truth's shall we:


- they previously claimed that £5.2 billion fraud / and / or error cost each UK taxpayer approx £86pa

- - - the actual [ evidenced ] £1 billion for DWP & £0.6 billion for HMRC costing each UK taxpayer approx £26pa

- - - the official & customer error is £3.6 billion pounds costing each UK taxpayer approx £60pa

All benefit fraud is wrong, no one in this group will argue otherwise, but the tabloids who fed no doubt by ..~ GUESS Who ~ .. blame the high benefit bill on fraudsters when they account for less that 1% of the entire benefit bill.


So lets have a look at this entire benefits bill shall we:

- - - the total benefit bill UK is £190 billion pounds costing each UK taxpayer approx £3166 per year.

- - - the state pension / retirement benefits are approx 42% of the total benefit bill that's £79 billion costing each UK taxpayer approx £1316pa

Now 1% of the above figures is a lot of wonka going to the greedy fiddlers but its a tiny tiny minuscule fraction of the staggering amount going to waste and errors.

The problem here is the upcoming Universal Credit's new approach to Welfare Benefits has fed the Redtops scare stories for most of 2011 in order to divert attention from the real agenda which is simply to reduce spending for the treasury. This one (1) word fraud most often proclaimed is actually two (2) words .. .. fraud & error, Universal Credit will have an immense effect on the 'error' element of this waste, but less than 1% on the fraud element .. .. put simply because fraud was only 1% to start with and department error actually accounts for most of the waste. The Redtops and the 'DaftHeads' however will continue to believe what is pumped out daily because propaganda is always easier to digest than fact.

Fraud [ actual ] by this time next year will be three strikes and you are out :

- an instant civil penalty of £50 for those who fail, without good excuse, to report changes to personal circumstances
- where the DWP feel low level fraud could go to criminal proceedings, and individual will be offered a tough penalty plus four weeks loss of benefit to avoid the courts
- anyone convicted of criminal fraud will be, 1st strike three months loss of benefits 2nd strike a full six months loss of benefits
- benefit fraud recovery will go up to 25% of benefits deducted at source
- any working fraudster will have a DEA [ Direct Earnings Attachment ] applied to claw the money back to the treasury

I make the observation that no recipients of Welfare Benefit [ means tested or otherwise ] has the right to hold on to public money, [ 1% of fraud & error ] not intended for them, none, not one single element of the above measures address the [ 99% of fraud & error ] departmental error element.

Rather than define fraud as a % of "benefit" spend, why not go the whole hog and compare it to total government spending; then you could get it down to less than 0.25%?

In reality, the element of spending on Pensions is virtually immune to fraud. So in fact the area of spend with potential for fraud is around £110m. That pushes the percentage in the other direction.

It would analagous to looking a banking fraud as part of HSBCs entire operation, when 97% of the fraud is on credit cards. The 0.1% of total banking is not relevant compared to the 5% of credit card spend.

Regardless of this, few of the measurements of "Fraud and Error" actually have any method of assessing exaggeration of medical impairments. They primarily focus on financial aspects of fraud /error.

Which makes the analysis you have done rather worthless. :cool:

GlasweJen

Lol this is ludicrous! Surely it's better to pay SSP up to a point and then refer it rather than refer from the off? I clearly can't work at the moment so what's the point in referring me to ATOS when even they can't get me out of this hospital? Surely the system would be fairer to assess people after say 6 or 12 weeks of continuous sickness and put support in to help them return to their work (occupational therapy maybe).

On the other hand I think employers should be made to comply with helping sick people return to work, there's been a few threads on here where the person has been banned from a manual job but told they could do a desk jobs, employers should be forced to prove they have nothing to offer their sick staff member.

Oldernotwiser

colin13 wrote: »

totally disagree with this prropasal,,here was my situtation,,i have ms,,i worked in heavy industrry,,company doc ssaid i was unsafe on shop floor,and would be sutuble for office work,,but the company would not retrain me,,orr look for any suitable jobs,within ccompany,,so paid off,,the dwp said they would look at retraing etc,,but wott if company has no jobss to give you,,another case of tories hitting the vunrable

If you're capable of doing light work such as working in an office than you shouldn't be claiming sickness benefits.

Although it would have been good practice for your employer to offer retraining to you, I cannot really see why you should expect anyone to offer you training when there are so many opportunities to do this for yourself.

Yorkie1

vision2009 wrote: »

In future the opinion of your GP or consultant will be worthless. ONLY the word of the DWP / ATOS must be obeyed. Government set your own house in order before constantly attacking others.
Pity they have nothing more constructive to do with their time.

And, of course, ATOS always get it right and have virtually no decisions overturned on appeal. :eek:

[/sarcasm]

colin13

andd

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

If you're capable of doing light work such as working in an office than you shouldn't be claiming sickness benefits.

Although it would have been good practice for your employer to offer retraining to you, I cannot really see why you should expect anyone to offer you training when there are so many opportunities to do this for yourself.

at thetime i wanted to go on a course sponsered by the government,,but not allowed due to the fact i was still eemployed by the company,,so the company did not offer me work,,but also stopped me heelping my sleff,,bbut tthat is all in the past,,and it was not me who wanted to ggive up work,,i was forced into it