Two PayPass Cards

Fingerbobs

Hooloovoo wrote: »

I don't believe a word of that, unless the card reader just happened to be right at hip-level so he could stand right up against it.

The card readers in Pret A Manger ARE at hip level, on a shelf below and in front of the counter, and yes, I DID press my trouser pocket right up against the reader.

Oyster readers are much too high for this to be possible.

Gromitt

Hooloovoo wrote: »

A secure link is established between the chip on the card and the payment terminal, no different from if it was physically connected to the terminal. The NFC is simply an alternative connection method rather than copper to copper. The communication protocol is the same.

In that case, how come a PP transaction takes less than a second to process (or at least to authorise your card), but a C+P transaction can take upto 5 seconds AFTER you have entered your PIN (which it normally takes 3+ seconds to get to that stage). Thus, it sounded like different technology to me.

Is there any PDFs about how this PP technology works? (Not the dumbed down versions on bank websites)

Considering the upkeep of PP terminals, I wonder why they can't do PIN-less C+P terminals with a limit of £10 or so. Just insert your card, wait for the beep, and remove. Rather than needing new hardware. Transactions over £10 require your PIN.

TadleyBaggie

Gromitt wrote: »

In that case, how come a PP transaction takes less than a second to process (or at least to authorise your card), but a C+P transaction can take upto 5 seconds AFTER you have entered your PIN (which it normally takes 3+ seconds to get to that stage). Thus, it sounded like different technology to me.

Simply because a contactless transaction does not have to approved by the bank, if it is below the "floor limit" the transaction is simply recorded and sent up in an overnight batch. For C+P the transaction has to be sent all the way to the bank in question for approval, which take longer.

I know this because I'm currently working on a retail/banking project which is being updated for contactless.

Hooloovoo

Fingerbobs wrote: »

The card readers in Pret A Manger ARE at hip level, on a shelf below and in front of the counter, and yes, I DID press my trouser pocket right up against the reader.

Oyster readers are much too high for this to be possible.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes perfect sense now

Hooloovoo

Gromitt wrote: »

In that case, how come a PP transaction takes less than a second to process (or at least to authorise your card), but a C+P transaction can take upto 5 seconds AFTER you have entered your PIN (which it normally takes 3+ seconds to get to that stage). Thus, it sounded like different technology to me.

As TadleyBaggie says it's to do with authentication. The contactless payments are designed to be quick and low value and so fewer checks are made.

That doesn't mean it isn't possible. So far I've only found contactless payment terminals in Australia while I was over there earlier this year, but I assume my experience would translate to here. Some terminals I could just "beep" my card like an Oyster card. Others I had to hold my card on the reader for several seconds while it established a secure connection with the card and authorised the payment.

Is there any PDFs about how this PP technology works? (Not the dumbed down versions on bank websites)

I don't have time to look right now, but I'm sure there are some papers on the technology.

Considering the upkeep of PP terminals, I wonder why they can't do PIN-less C+P terminals with a limit of £10 or so. Just insert your card, wait for the beep, and remove. Rather than needing new hardware. Transactions over £10 require your PIN.

Again, this IS happening currently in Australia. If my purchase was under around AUD$20 in a supermarket, I would very often insert my card into the C+P reader and instead of asking for my PIN it would just come up "Approved". I don't know why they don't do that here. I guess it would upset too many people given how paranoid many British people are over technology.

As I've said, the communication protocol for both contact and contactless transactions is the same. The merchant can choose to trust, or do full authentication, using whichever method.

Interestingly, the contactless readers in Australia were just an extra gadget attached to the top of their chip and PIN readers. I don't know if UK readers have such an auxiliary socket.