Two PayPass Cards

Fingerbobs

I love PayPass! Bought a coffee with it for the first time last week, and I am thoroughly pleased. Didn't even need to remove my wallet from my pocket! Very convenient :rotfl:

I was just wondering, though - what would happen if I had two contactless cards in my wallet? Would it charge both of them, or just one, or would they simply interfere with one another and neither would work?

reclusive46

It would say say "Two cards present, present only one card."

Gromitt

I don't want to be negative but there are portable Paypass devices. I'm sure you don't want to be charged £10 for something whilst drinking a coffee, so maybe invest in a RFID blocker for your wallet?

Personally, I prefer the more secure C+P (not much more secure, but at least it isn't open to the world)

Fingerbobs

But the same argument applies to anyone who's got a PayPass card in their wallet, whether or not they choose to use it?

Considering most (all?) Barclaycards now have PayPass, that's a lot of punters who'll need RF screened wallets!

It's not something that worries me. I think it's a great system.

Gromitt

According to Barclays, you must activate your card for Paypass transactions before people are allowed to automatically subtract money from your account. So if someone choses not to use PP, then they have nothing to worry about.

If this wasn't the case, the postie could buy himself a coffee each time you ordered yourself a new card, without even opening the envelope. Could be quite funny. Postie puts his bag on the table next to the cash register and then all of a sudden, "beep! Payment confirmed.".

Hooloovoo

Gromitt wrote: »

Could be quite funny. Postie puts his bag on the table next to the cash register and then all of a sudden, "beep! Payment confirmed.".

Funny, but unlikely.

Remember this technology uses magnetic coupling, it is not a radio frequency system. The idea of it accidentally charging everyone in a queue, or someone on a train station using a "big antenna" to take £1 from everyone who walks past is simply not possible.

The system only works over a couple of centimetres at the very most.

Fingerbobs

Gromitt wrote: »

According to Barclays, you must activate your card for Paypass transactions before people are allowed to automatically subtract money from your account.

I wasn't aware of any such requirement. I've certainly never activated PayPass on mine, and it worked fine in Pret A Manger last week with no cardholder verification.

The card itself has to be activated before any use, of course, so the postie couldn't use it prior to delivery anyway

Hooloovoo

Fingerbobs wrote: »

I wasn't aware of any such requirement. I've certainly never activated PayPass on mine, and it worked fine in Pret A Manger last week with no cardholder verification.

I think you have to activate your NFC enabled mobile phone, but not the NFC card itself.

OllyM

Gromitt wrote: »

I don't want to be negative but there are portable Paypass devices. I'm sure you don't want to be charged £10 for something whilst drinking a coffee, so maybe invest in a RFID blocker for your wallet?

Personally, I prefer the more secure C+P (not much more secure, but at least it isn't open to the world)

Or perhaps invest in a tinfoil hat? It won't happen!

Gromitt wrote: »

According to Barclays, you must activate your card for Paypass transactions before people are allowed to automatically subtract money from your account. So if someone choses not to use PP, then they have nothing to worry about.

If this wasn't the case, the postie could buy himself a coffee each time you ordered yourself a new card, without even opening the envelope. Could be quite funny. Postie puts his bag on the table next to the cash register and then all of a sudden, "beep! Payment confirmed.".

Not true, you have to hold the card very close to the reader for a start, and you also have to do a PIN transaction with the card before the contactless bit is activated.

Gromitt

OllyM wrote: »

Not true, you have to hold the card very close to the reader for a start

Thats what I thought, but the OP states "Didn't even need to remove my wallet from my pocket!" which is why I said if that can happen, then you surely need to activate the card to prevent the postie paying for a coffee on your behalf (even by accident).

I just re-read the barclays leaflet and it says the first time you do a PP transaction, you will be asked for your pin. I don't see how, considering the fact that the PIN is inside the chip on the card and your not connected to it. Unless the PIN is transmitted to the bank? (and captured by rogue PP terminals?)

Hooloovoo

Gromitt wrote: »

Thats what I thought, but the OP states "Didn't even need to remove my wallet from my pocket!"

I don't believe a word of that, unless the card reader just happened to be right at hip-level so he could stand right up against it.

The Oyster card works while it's inside your wallet, but you still need to touch your wallet to the reader. Contactless payments use the same technology.

As I said, it uses "magnetic coupling" and the two devices have to be very close together for it to work. It's not RF technology. For a start there is no power source inside the card to power a receiver. The card is powered through induction when placed in the magnetic field of the touch pad - hence the term "near field" communication.

If induction based power worked over more than a centimetre or two we would all be using wireless power supplies by now. It doesn't, and we're not. Induction charging is going to be the "next big thing" in mobile gadgets. But you'll have to put the device on the charging pad - you just won't need to physically plug it in.

I just re-read the barclays leaflet and it says the first time you do a PP transaction, you will be asked for your pin. I don't see how, considering the fact that the PIN is inside the chip on the card and your not connected to it. Unless the PIN is transmitted to the bank? (and captured by rogue PP terminals?)

A secure link is established between the chip on the card and the payment terminal, no different from if it was physically connected to the terminal. The NFC is simply an alternative connection method rather than copper to copper. The communication protocol is the same.