Public Sector Pension Strikes – A JOKE !

lindopski_2

I work for the NHS and I am part of the NHS pension scheme.
I know plenty of people however who are not in the scheme and do not have any pension plan for the future.
The unpopular changes that are being made have already started other tongues wagging about pulling out of it altogether.

what contingency plans do the private sector armchair mouthpieces have for the future when hundreds of thousands of people turn up with a begging bowl in 40 years time ?

At least at the moment the public sector employees are contributing to their pension schemes, I'm on average pay and mine are £130 a month.
Its all well and good to sit in a chair mouthing off but when a large chunk just say sod it - the state can provide when I am old, what are you going to do then?
refuse them anything ? - starving pensioners don't look good on a western nations sheet do they?

It would be an idea to cease 'gobbing off' and encouraging as many people as possible in the public sector to stay in their 'lucrative' pension schemes or else we will all be footing the bill when our grandchildren are hitting infants school.

I can earn far more money in the private sector as I specialise in a particular field and I will no doubt start looking once the credit crunch turns once again into a boom (it will trust me).
I would rather my current colleagues keep on paying into the scheme than me having to pay even more as I grow old because half of them have dropped out and have nothing to put toward their old age.

tartanterra

lindopski wrote: »

It would be an idea to cease 'gobbing off' and encouraging as many people as possible in the public sector to stay in their 'lucrative' pension schemes.

lindopski wrote: »

Wonga charge 4000% odd in interest
would I be better using quickquid who charge 1700% odd instead.

"gobbing off" indeed.

It seems to me that before giving everyone else advice on what opinion they should spout on the funding of public sector pension affordability (obviously due to your huge grasp of finance); you would gain more credibility if you didn't require advice between a 4000% loan and a 1700% loan.

dshart

lindopski wrote: »

I work for the NHS and I am part of the NHS pension scheme.
I know plenty of people however who are not in the scheme and do not have any pension plan for the future.
The unpopular changes that are being made have already started other tongues wagging about pulling out of it altogether.

what contingency plans do the private sector armchair mouthpieces have for the future when hundreds of thousands of people turn up with a begging bowl in 40 years time ?

At least at the moment the public sector employees are contributing to their pension schemes, I'm on average pay and mine are £130 a month.
Its all well and good to sit in a chair mouthing off but when a large chunk just say sod it - the state can provide when I am old, what are you going to do then?
refuse them anything ? - starving pensioners don't look good on a western nations sheet do they?

It would be an idea to cease 'gobbing off' and encouraging as many people as possible in the public sector to stay in their 'lucrative' pension schemes or else we will all be footing the bill when our grandchildren are hitting infants school.

I can earn far more money in the private sector as I specialise in a particular field and I will no doubt start looking once the credit crunch turns once again into a boom (it will trust me).
I would rather my current colleagues keep on paying into the scheme than me having to pay even more as I grow old because half of them have dropped out and have nothing to put toward their old age.

I think you will find if you read the various posts even by people who disagree with the strike, that everyone advises people to remain in their public sector pensions as they are still very good value for money even with the changes. Anyone who leaves the scheme will regret it later. The argument or as you say "gobbing off" is that people should accept that there has to be some changes made to their scheme as it cannot continue as it is.

Anybody who says "sod it the state can provide when I am old" is going to be in for a rude shock when they retire as the basic state pension will be very small and the retirement date is getting pushed further and further back.

I also note that you use the public sector as a nice safe haven in hard times, but will be back in the private sector earning the "big bucks" once the recession is over. Well at least you cannot use the excuse that you work in the public sector for the good of others.

Using you same train on thought, what about all the thousands of private sector workers who are not saving anything towards their retirement, who is going to look after them when they "come with their begging bowls"? I could just as easily say that if the public sector pay and pensions bill was not so high then maybe we could pay less taxes and these workers could afford to put something away for retirement (I know its not true, but using your logic I could argue that).

I do not know what sort of salary you term as average, but £130 contribution to a pension in the private sector would not get you much of a pension.

lindopski_2

I wonder if you will be !!!!-waving in 40 years if my prediction - one also currently mooted by most of the media comes to fruition.
Maybe when your children are paying for what they will no doubt term 'scrounging pensioners' you will regret getting cocky on an internet forum.

My money worries are 'very' temporary - the nations however are long term.
Though your financial genius will no doubt shine in your reply!

atush

what contingency plans do the private sector armchair mouthpieces have for the future when hundreds of thousands of people turn up with a begging bowl in 40 years time ?

I expect them to live a poor and miserable existance just as all those in the private sector do who are too selfish or stupid to save for retirement. And I expect you and I will pay that bill, and our children and grandchildren. And when the bill gets too large, state pension age will be raised again and public sector pensions cut back again.

It would be an idea to cease 'gobbing off' and encouraging as many people as possible in the public sector to stay in their 'lucrative' pension schemes or else we will all be footing the bill when our grandchildren are hitting infants school.

If you actually bother to go back a few pages in these forums, you will see countless cases of just that from myself and others here. Who contantly tell/cajole/entreaty public service employees to join their pension schemes or stay in them.

So perhaps you can stop gobbing off and join us?

dshart

DCodd wrote: »

No its Government money they are spending. Taxes that you pay but would still pay regardless of what they spend it on. However the pensions/pay deals are the private earnings of individual UK citizens (like you) so are you saying I have a right to know your finances as I may have spent some money that has contributed to your earnings?

And government money belongs to everyone in the country and we have a right to know how it is being spent.

If you are a member of the union involved in those negotiations, have they fed back anything from the negotiations which have been going on for months? I know if I was a member I would be asking questions and looking for updates on a regular basis on how the negotiations were going and where they felt they were making progress or otherwise. Or are all the union members just happy for the union to broker a deal and just accept it.

I know from my experience with unions that sometimes they come out of the negotiations thinking they have won on some minor issue when all along there was more available on the table but they couldn't be bothered to feed it back to the members to get their views.

lindopski_2

DShart
a good reply

I doubt that £130 is going to be a good pension in the NHS either but I don't intend to stick around to long to find out.

The big money is certainly in the private sector long term and being in it for the 'vocation' is a mugs game as no one gives a stuff about you - certainly proven by the majority response to public sector workers that I have read about over the last few months.

I am getting to the stage now myself of joining the rest of the UK whereby we all care for ourselves and stuff the rest. This mentality has been rife in the private sector for years and now needs to be brought into the public side a little more as doing it for the good of mankind as I have seen, is foolish and no one is greatful.
I read a recent report in the news of this new UK where we are all in it for ourselves, this is certainly what I can see from not only this forum but pretty much any forum on any subject on the internet for the last few years.

Me,me, me is the order of the day.

The problem with the people that do drop out of the pension scheme is that they will no doubt with time find all new ways to screw the system leaving work at 59/60 when they are pretty unemployable to a new position to be honest,surviving on benefits and then pension.

I would rather like you say that people keep on paying into the public sector pensions, but if we make them too unnattractive then the fallout could be considerable.

dshart

lindopski wrote: »

I wonder if you will be !!!!-waving in 40 years if my prediction - one also currently mooted by most of the media comes to fruition.
Maybe when your children are paying for what they will no doubt term 'scrounging pensioners' you will regret getting cocky on an internet forum.

My money worries are 'very' temporary - the nations however are long term.
Though your financial genius will no doubt shine in your reply!

This is the reason that changes are required in the public sector pensions as the future cost in liabilities is going to be very large unless steps are taken now to correct it.

With private DC pensions the future risk is completely with the individual, with DB schemes the risk is with the employer and it is this risk that is hard to quantify, but is likely to be very large as people live longer.

I do not want my children paying for over generous future public sector pensions.

WhiteHorse

DCodd wrote: »

No its Government money they are spending.

And where, pray tell, does the government get its money from?

Furthermore, the government is put there by us, to run things on our behalf, and its employees are public servants.

DCodd

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

My example was a more refined example of your original (and IMHO flawed) analogy.

Are you suggesting that the Unions don't follow a political agenda too (ie suggesting that all public sector employees are "hard working" and "low pay & pensioned" etc etc)

Many public sector employees are not Union members and those, together with the taxpayer who's footing the bill, should be told how the negotiations are progressing so they can form an opinion as to whether the Government is acting fairly rather than solely relying on Union propaganda.

nb - when it suits the Unions they are quite happy to disclose what's happening before official announcements - remember Derek Simpson tweeting from inside BA meetings when it suited him?

I have stated many times before that the Unions are just as politicaly motivated as the Government and agree whole heartedly that they are capable of at least as much propaganda as the Government.

I think the analogy is accurate on all levels, from the employee through to the employer. In the private sector it would be seen as very poor and unprofessional practise to play out such dealings on a public stage. I point again to the BA farce, the public had some sympathy with one side or the other but generally thought both sides were playing childish games. It seems however, that the Government have played on the public's current financial fears to create a social rift based on which side of the employment fence you sit.

The point of the negotiations are to find common ground to agree on and then present those propsals to the interested parties, in this case the PS workers and the Government. It is not to try and score political points at the expenses of 100,000's of peoples livelihoods, but as you say, in this case both sides are political beasts.