Public Sector Pension Strikes – A JOKE !

Old_Slaphead

MikeR71 wrote: »

Yes we get it. Teachers, nurses, carers, firemen, etc. don't show any tangible benefits so how dare they earn £20k a year and still ask for a half decent pension in old age.

For new starters, possibly.

After a few years most police, including overtime etc gross over £40k, basic teachers £37k and most nurses over £26k. Add in a 15% pension contribution and they don't do too badly.

jem16

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

basic teachers £37k

Basic teacher's maximum salary is £31,552 for England/Wales - only London areas would get to £37k. Scotland max is £34,200.

It took me 15 years to get to the top of the pay scale as there were 12 points when I joined and with reorganisation of the pointage scale I kept going backwards for a few years.

worldwheeler

dshart wrote: »

BTW I think on the level of your suggestion it would have cost the government a lot more than they spent bailing out the banks.

Why would re-issuing peoples savings held in insolvent banks be MORE expensive than buying the toxic assets, leveraged at the very least 10times, at 100pence in the pound from these insolvent banks? A peoples bank owned by the gov't would issue all the previous saving held in the failed bankrupt banks and this would be a new currency and issued at 0% interest. Banks would be allowed to follow a business model based on full reserve banking and not fractional reserve(earn interest of money made up out of thin air).
It would release the economy from the parasitical nature of modern banking and enable the people to use a currency that was purely a form of exchange for goods, unlike the currency we use now where there is a charge for using this money.

MikeR71

Zelazny,

My point was that the importance of the job that people do should be taken into account. We are told that bankers deserve their pay and bonuses because they do importamnt jobs, right? My point is that teachers, nurses, careworkers, policemen, firemen all do important work, and for me far more important than many in the private sector. So let them have a comfortable enough life to be able to concentrate on their job rather than worry about how they put bread on the table after they have paid all the bills.

Most people on the shop floor who work for minimum wage do so for big corporate companies like Tesco and other big chain stores. It is disgusting that they are paid what they are paid in my view. But that doesn't mean we should downgrade the role of those I listed in the public sector in order to achieve equality and fairness. This neither fair nor achieves equality.

Snow_Angel

Zelazny wrote: »

It's not that people think that teachers, firefighters, police officers, etc don't deserve to be well paid, but it should be something that's worked towards. If they had a starting pay of £20k and worked up from there then there would be a lot less complaint, even if their salary increased a lot quicker than in other areas.

I spent 3 years at university training for my profession as a physiotherapist. It wasn't a 'dossy' course and most holidays were spent on unpaid placement - working 40 hours a week 'on the job'. I trained as a mature student having previously worked in the private sector - incidentally in what you consider 'demeaning' jobs...bar work, waitressing, retail etc - for minimum wage. When I qualified I initially couldn't get work due to government cuts in the NHS and lack of jobs available so had to spend 4 months sleeping on a friends couch rent-free while doing voluntary work to prove my commitment to my profession. The starting wage for junior physios in the NHS is £21,176....I believe I've earned that with 3 years hard work and 2 years prior to that doing 3 jobs to be able to save up to go to university in the first place. If I went private as a physio - which with my experience I now could - I could earn 3 times that and I'd quite happily put the difference into savings, a private pension and/or property/investments and be better off in my old age. But I'd rather stick with my morals and provide treatment for people who cannot afford private healthcare - we are hugely lucky in this country to still have the luxury of the NHS....for now anyway but if the government keeps heading in this direction we won't have it for much longer.

cyclonebri1

MikeR71 wrote: »

Third, public sector is always the ones who carry the burden when an economic crisis occurs. This time too we are being punished for a crisis we did not create. Is that not enough?

.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::T:T:T, Hey, the best joke I've heard since Jeremy Clarkson strirred the waters earlier this week.

So, 1stly, you carry the same burden as every other lesser mortal, only it affects you years after it does the private sector, and secondly, we, assuming by your definition that the other party is the private sector worker, didn't create it either :mad::mad::mad:

And 3rdly, this time you are being asked to contribute to the solution.

Did anyone say Jezza for Prime Minister ?????, and yes, that was joke too, clue?, read the thread title,

Turnbull2000

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

For new starters, possibly.

After a few years most police, including overtime etc gross over £40k, basic teachers £37k and most nurses over £26k. Add in a 15% pension contribution and they don't do too badly.

Don't the police get free travel to work too?

Old_Slaphead

Turnbull2000 wrote: »

Don't the police get free travel to work too?

I've heard that too - don't know if it's true though.

And they get half price food in our city centre branches of Subway - which is another reason why I won't patronise that establishment !

sheffield_lad

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I've heard that too - don't know if it's true though.

And they get half price food in our city centre branches of Subway - which is another reason why I won't patronise that establishment !

Different sectors different rules, Brown wanted to introduce affordable housing to parts of the South East not bad until he suggested it was only for 'key' workers, the rest of didn't deserve them aparently. :mad:

The whole thread comes back to one word FAIRNESS

real1314

Zelazny wrote: »

If they were all on £20k, I don't think anyone would be upset. The fact is that a policeman in the Met will start on more than £30k (no idea of other areas, but I doubt it's much lower).

I know a brand new teacher, just passed her teacher training and her first teaching job pays more than £28k.

Firefighters get £21k for the time that they're training, then jump to £28k once the start the job properly.

The median full time salary in the UK is around £25k. That means that around half of the working populace is on less than that. I can tell you from personal experience that a lot of the jobs that pay less than that are dirty, grubby jobs, or ones that demean and belittle you. Retail is a good example - the people who work in stores, waiting on ungrateful customers and putting up with the rudeness, theft and sheer bloodymindedness that a lot of people display in stores without thinking about it are usually on little more than minimum wage. I know a lot of stores even in London where the manager is on less than £25k - and that's not an easy job.

It's not that people think that teachers, firefighters, police officers, etc don't deserve to be well paid, but it should be something that's worked towards. If they had a starting pay of £20k and worked up from there then there would be a lot less complaint, even if their salary increased a lot quicker than in other areas. I certainly do believe that a teacher who's good at their job and has been teaching for 20 years should be on bloody good money, but one that's literally just qualified should not be on more than the median wage.

I guess there's a belief in the private sector that pay rises reward those who do their job well. If you start on high pay, you don't have to do a good job and have no understanding of what it means to be "normal" - you're sorted even if you're crap (and the difficulty there is in sacking people from the public sector just makes this worse).

Around 80% of the civil service is at AO or EO grade; Pay of £15-18k or £20-24k. EOs are typically people who've been in for 5-10 years and got promoted. The next level up is HEO, probably another 15%, pay of £25-30k.

An AO aged 45 with 25 years service in 2015 would have been looking at a pension of £9k for 40 years service at the age of 60.
Ok, that's an early retirement, but they've hardly had the greatest of wages, and would predominantly been on the frontline of services.

If they retire at 60 they will lose over £30k of pension from the age change alone.

So, who else is paying £30k of cold cash towards the deficit?

There's 20 million in the private sector aren't there?

20 million x £30k = £600 billion.

That would clear the deficit.

We clearly are NOT all in it together.