Public Sector Pension Strikes – A JOKE !

Backbiter

Stargazer57 wrote: »

If my pension scheme had a notional fund that was funded by notional contributions from the employer with any excess over benefits automatically being returned to the employer I can guarantee two things:

1 it would have a surplus that was a lot larger than 46 billion after 88 years. I reckon it would be 100 or even 200 billion.

2 I wouldn't attempt to insult the intelligence of the public by claiming that the size of the surplus meant anything.

But why should we expect the NUT not to insult our intelligence.

Maybe, as maths teachers say, you can show us your working to arrive at a surplus of £200 billion. Will it be like the Teachers Scheme, only with 5 times as many members?

In what way has the NUT insulted your intelligence? They have simply reacted to the constant propaganda saying their scheme is in deficit, and produced some figures to show that's not the case. At the same time they have asked the Government to carry out a valuation of the scheme, but they keep refusing.

And when they do produce some positive figures, you turn around and say "£46 billion surplus? Pah. Any pension fund worth its salt should be £200 million in surplus."

I really do not follow your point. Is being in surplus not a good thing when it's less of a surplus than you think it should be?

sheffield_lad

redlooney wrote: »

Think I've got it now......you used to be a mine owner or perhaps a mill owner in the 19th century didnt you and still believe workers ought to doff their caps when you're on the shop floor
Shame on you - back into your box now, time for the medication

Guess your right then lol, lets re examine the argument a guy wants to go to work and do his job and you want to call him a scab?

I wonder who needs the medication?

pauletruth

Koicarp wrote: »

I don't have access to nhs figures since '97 (can't find them) but I'll post a comparison of starting pay from 2004 against 2011. Do you have any figures for the private sector over the same period?
2004-5 2011-12
Band1 10762 13903
Band 2 11508 13903
Band 3 13226 15860
Band 4 15504 18402
Band 5 18114 21176 (Staff Nurse grade)
Band 6 21630 25528 (Charge/Sister nurse grade)
Band 7 26106 30460 (Senior Sister/Charge NurseGrade)
Band 8 33298 38851 (Matron)

My (very rough) mental arithemetic works that out at around 17% rise over 7 years on the upper grades. The government published some figures a couple of weeks back illustrating the effect of proposed changes on our pensions which appeared to be based on pay rises of 2% above inflation. If the above pay rises are too high, then I'd suggest the government illustrations are nonsense.

you have missed the two year pay freeze so equal to roughly a 10% cut.
it would be very nice to see a 2 % above inflation rise.

your band five staff nurse will now start with a student loan now that they have played about with the nhs bursary.
so the student nurse gives roughly 75 weeks of unpaid work and is now expected to live on less and pay most of it back.

the wife being old time finished with a hnd and had to pay for her own degree. she is now faced with another two years study to become a district nurse so at the end of her training she will have a masters degree but unless they open up posts then she will be stuck on 25k . for 7 years study.

you want and need highly trained and motivated staff keep treating them like dirt and you will one day regret it.

so if you were a 18 year old and wanted to choose a career whatr would you choose a job that will hurt you. ask and look at a nurse nearing retirement and most will have work related injuries. the often are the victims of assults the wife twice in the last year.

you are required to undertake regular training which is now not planned in the off duty so has to be done in their own time. you don't get payed for overtime which is nearly every day. the wife works 12hour shifts plus nights. they often don't get there meal breaks because they are too busy.

and now they want to make them work another 8 years pay a lot more and get less back in pensions.

when someone leaves they are never replaced. yet there aways seems to be money for stupid ideas and of course more managers.
tell me would you not be a little annoyed.

The nhs is not safe in there hands in fact they are very close to killing it off. and you wonder why lots of staff nurses are leaving to go abroad or even into tesco. less stress and after all the deductions not much diffrence in pay.

zildjian

I've not trawled through the numerous pages here. But in terms of the life expectancy debate, it varies from area to area in terms of location. That in itself would require extensive research throughout the public sector on that front.

I believe that the pension levels for public sector employees needs to be addressed. To what extent, i do not know. But it's never going to be in favour of he ps employees.

J_i_m

In fairness in my NHS trust overtime pay is generous, or at least it used to be. We got paid time x1.5. However there is a recession going on, we all know that and our trust are no longer offering overtime rate to it's staff. Cover is now sought from the bank staff agency which pay the standard rate. Admittedly we are free to register with them if we wish to do extra hours.

Other than that it's amusing to see that I'm effectively being blasted by a private sector worker for chosing not to strike regardless of the union decision. Sorry if I interpreted that wrong but surely we can see the irony there.

I work in a secure mental health unit, we look after people who are really quite vulernable and also people who pose a risk to the public. Now if I'm going to be labeled a "scab" for doing the right thing then so be it. I sincerely doubt anyone at my unit will strike.

It's nice to know that society at large appreciate and value the work we do, I thank you all.

Stargazer57

Backbiter wrote: »

I really do not follow your point. Is being in surplus not a good thing when it's less of a surplus than you think it should be?

My point is that no contributions have actually been paid, so there is no point measuring the excess of contributions over benefits.

A figure has been written down for contributions each year, but it could have been twice as much and the present economic result would have been the same and the NUT could then claim the "surplus" was several times as large.

Alternatively contributions could have been set to exactly equal to the benefits each year. Then the NUT would have to say there is now no surplus, but all past tax bills would have been exactly the same.

michelle1506

I think that all the people on this forum who consistently slag off public sector workers are a joke...

Yorkie1

Wish Francis Maude would make his mind up what his message is.

Earlier today: "Don't strike, come back to the negotiating table, a further compromise is almost there"

Now on the news: "This is as good as it gets, don't strike".

Either there is scope for further negotiations, or there isn't.

pauletruth

whos fault is it that there is no invested pension scheme. who set it up that they would pay it from day to day revenue. who stole the members pension conts to run the country. anything diffrent than maxwell and his stealing. it was not the nurses it was not any other public sector pensioner. it was goverment that the public voted in so your reps stole money to run there defcit. now its time to pay up they cry they don't have it. tough pay up.

if you feel that you need to work to insure that the folks you are caring for are safe no one will condem you. however if your just refusing to support your union on your principles then leave the union and except whatever the goverment and management will throw at you. just remember it was the scabs as you put it that broke the NUM. and even though he was red and extreme were are the pits now. go down that route and in thirty years your kids or grandkids will be asking what was the nhs,

plus ive just calculated the pension the wife will get if she retires at 68 so in 2038 the wife will come out with 10,000 a year on her current scheme. how is that gold plated.

xylophone

No, when I say 'paid well' I mean just that - I compared it with what I (degree and professional qualification) expected to be paid.
I am well aware of the problems that the country has but I still do not believe that it is right or just for it to renege on the contracts it has made, nor do I believe that it is necessary.