MSE News: Confusion reigns as student fees fear takes hold

Taiko

anselld wrote: »

It is not communication which is a National Scandal, it is the huge increase in fees and the level of debt students are expected to carry for a decent education.

They are not protesting for better communication; You don't need to have two brains to work out it is much more expensive in the new system to go to University. That is why they are protesting.

Have you actually read the article?

gadgetmind

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Even you don't know all the in's and out's of the new system needed to make your personal plan and you are well into preparing or even finalising perhaps your UCAS applications by now.

The reason that cat2011 doesn't know about how overpayments work is because HMG haven't decided yet, or if they have, they haven't told anyone yet.

I am also holding off until this is decided. If they won't allow overpayments without penalties, then they can stuff their loan.

jrawle

anselld wrote: »

It is not communication which is a National Scandal, it is the huge increase in fees and the level of debt students are expected to carry for a decent education.

They are not protesting for better communication; You don't need to have two brains to work out it is much more expensive in the new system to go to University. That is why they are protesting.

I think you have just proved the point of the article!

jrawle

As other people have commented, if someone is incapable of understanding the new student finance scheme, are they really bright enough to go to university?

If anyone is guilty of poor communication, it's not the government, but the media and most of all the NUS. The latter have done a huge disservice to many students - particularly those from poorer backgrounds - by leading them to believe they won't be able to afford university now, rather than pointing out that it makes it more affordable and that they may never even have to pay back what they've borrowed. (Plus the often-forgotten fact that a student "debt" isn't considered a debt when taking out a mortgage etc.)

The media want to make a political point out of it, an excuse to bash the government. And the NUS want an excuse to protest. Both could have played a valuable role by educating the public about the new system rather than scaring them.

gadgetmind

jrawle wrote: »

I think you have just proved the point of the article!

Not if it's your intention to pay off the loan early. Under the new system, the loan is larger, the interest rate higher, and repayment penalties still undecided.

alexlyne

I didn't starting paying back my loan until 5 years after I graduated. At that point I owed around 8K. I am still less than halfway through paying it under the current system after nearly 4 years (with above median salary). If the kids are going to graduate with over 30K of debt, and paying a lower amount while interest rates will be higher, then unless your career plan is 'earn 50K', then even people with above average salaries will not pay it all back in 30 years, so it seems pointless to try to pay it back early (unless you're guaranteed that super-high income of course). Whichever way you look at it, students are still so much worse off come next year.
For me, it was repay a loan, or get a house to provide security for myself and my family. Other peoples priorities are different and I respect that. Let's hope that there are plenty of jobs in 2015 though

gadgetmind

alexlyne wrote: »

unless your career plan is 'earn 50K'

Starting on £50k is perhaps unrealistic, but it's a reasonable number to shoot for later as your career progresses.

even people with above average salaries will not pay it all back in 30 years

They will pay the principle many times over, and a shed-load of interest on top.

unless you're guaranteed that super-high income of course).

Whether this is a high income from someone with a good degree is perhaps left to a different thread.

jrawle

gadgetmind wrote: »

Not if it's your intention to pay off the loan early. Under the new system, the loan is larger, the interest rate higher, and repayment penalties still undecided.

None of that is relevant when considering whether the new system has been communicated well, which was the point of the article. anselld either hadn't read the article, doesn't understand the system, or both.

As Martin often points out, many people would be very ill-advised to overpay as they are likely to pay more overall than than if they didn't.

gadgetmind

jrawle wrote: »

As Martin often points out, many people would be very ill-advised to overpay as they are likely to pay more overall than than if they didn't.

That depends on what assumptions you make in your mathematical model. Based on the most likely scenario, my daughter will be better off clearing the debt as early as possible BUT that depends on repayment penalties, which haven't yet been announced.

Not bothering with the loan is an option for her/us but taking one out derisks the scenario where she fails to complete the course.

I've got everything in spreadsheets but, 1) she needs to get the offers and medicine is "somewhat competitive" and 2) HMG need to decide regards penalties.

devildog

I believe that many prospective students DO understand the implications of these increased fees, they do understand that you don't start to pay it back until earning over 21K and that it is wiped after 30 years and that if for whatever reason they aren't employed they will not make repayments(unlike a typical loan).

They are also intelligent enough to know that this is a huge debt that will hang over them for most(if not all) of their working lives.