MSE News: Legal threats over solar subsidy cuts

Former_MSE_Helen

This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"The Government is facing threats of legal action over plans to halve the subsidies paid for domestic solar electricity ..."

Read the full story:

Legal threats over solar subsidy cuts

undaunted

I can't see that ultimately achieving anything more than a delay in implementation at best but it seems to becoming typical of the Government - announcing it will do this that & the other without properly thinking things through

Brian99_2

I guessed there would need be a big row. Maybe the deadline will now be relaxed.

The recent rush to install resulted in a terrible shortage of hardware, now holding up my installer.

rogerblack

The existing subsidy rates are barking, barking, barking mad.

I note that already there are installers offering significant price drops for installs post Dec 8.

Consider this.
The raw cost of the panels and the inverter are around 5000 pounds for a 4000W install.
In sunny central Scotland, under the current scheme, these will earn around 1400 pounds a year.

This will pay back the cost of the panels and inverter in under 4 years.

The new subsidy in around 8.

This is not a small amount of subsidy!!!

The fact that people have to pay significantly more than 5000 to get the solar panels on their roof is irrelevant.

Simply as if the subsidy was properly designed, you'd get the same money for the same panels anywhere where the grid can take it, including if it's an acre of unproductive hillside in cornwall, as you'd get on your roof.

This is not free money.
This is money put on everyones electricity bills, including the poorest, who cannot benefit from this scheme.
Yes, historically, the poorest homeowners have been able to benefit slightly by getting panels on their roof - however the 'free' panel supplier gets 95% of the benefit!

The subsidy should be properly designed, so it gets the cheapest possible panels for the 'taxpayer', nomatter how 'deserving' the person applying for it is.

The farmer with a field out of public view that can put in a 10000kW facility for 99p/W cost must get the money, rather than the homeowner that it costs 2.50/W to install.

Antispam

Maybe friends of the Earth can pay the subsidy I and many others pay on our bills to pay for these, many of us now struggle now to heat our homes due to subsides on our energy bills thanks to that crook Blair increasing our green credentials. Its fine trying to be green unfortunately the poorest pay the biggest price yet generally use the least in energy

ChiefGrasscutter

Maybe HMG should just just tell Friends of the Earth to sod off - or else we'll reduce the subsidies even more.
Perhaps a further 10% for every court case launched - that should cause a re-assessment of attitudes.

We used to do this sort of thing when suppliers wanted to raise their prices. We simply said no and said that i n reponse we would only be prepared to pay x% less than we we already paying. The message soon got round..............

Cardew

If Friends of the Earth were so keen on solar, why didn't they campaign for huge solar farms in Devon and Cornwall|(where output is higher) on factory/supermarket roofs or brownfield sites. The benefits are of concentrating the production in a few sites in the most productive part of UK are obvious; instead we have tiny systems on roofs dotted all over UK up to Northern Scotland and often on unsuitable roofs. This entails scaffolding, wiring, labour, electronics x 100,000 not to mention the ongoing maintenance and accounting in those far flung locations.

As it is we have some 100,000 systems in UK all drawing huge subsidies paid for directly by all other electricity customers. Those systems are either owned by people who own their homes and can afford £10,000+ or Rent a Roof companies. I don't know just how many are owned by Rent a Roof companies, but just one(A Shade Greener) owns over 5,000 installations and has already received well over £4,000,000(£4 Million) of our money in subsidies. For their 5013 systems alone they will receive between £6Million and £7Million per year of our money(inflation linked) for the next 25 years.

All Friends of the Earth want to do is enable these and others to keep their snouts in the trough and feed of the subsidies we pay for longer.

Some firms - including A Shade Greener - indicate that they will carry on installing systems even with the lower rate of Subsidy. So what difficulty do Friends of the Earth have with that situation? Why campaign for the present stupidly high subsidies to be continued?

EDIT
As this is a Money saving Website, perhaps Martin should throw the considerable weight of MSE behind a campaign to keep the subsidy cuts. After all the vast majority(99.4%) of the 25million electricity customers will benefit if these stupid subsidies are cut.

rogerblack

To follow on with the earlier point.
Tesco are now offering to install a 3.84kWp system for 8499.

In sunny Scotland.
22.5p/kWh (I'm including some of the export tarrif), this will earn me around 750 pounds a year, 850 counting the used power.

This pays off in 10 years, neglecting interest.

In sunnier parts of the country, rather less.

I note that Tesco will be making some profit from this, so presumably it's possible for installers to bring in panels at under the 8K mark.

jamesd

Cardew, it's not cutting the budget, just the amount paid per installation. The same budget will be spread over more installations.

Brian99_2

Cardew - you have some very valid points... having a large solar farm in Sunny South makes sense... but it would need enormous wires on enormous pylons, going up to Scotland.

Part of the value of home systems is to avoid extra pylons everywhere. It is , yes, expensive, but I guess when hardware is cheaper, people will be happy to pay for their own installations. (We might need big batteries to store energy for the evening, when they are cheaper.)

gjchester

rogerblack wrote: »

I note that Tesco will be making some profit from this, so presumably it's possible for installers to bring in panels at under the 8K mark.

We had Tesco in for a quote and they looked cheaper on their initial "google map" type quote. Once the actual survey was done they were more expensive then others. We could have "saved" £1200 going elsewhere for a very similar spec system, although you can't get "identical" systems from suppliers they all have there own favourite choices.

I also got the £8499 email, but thats a sample price using the cheaper lower output panels hence the need for 13 to get the 3.8KWH system, will they all fit on your roof? One company gave me a range of panel choices with prices varying by £4.5K. Once they will requote you, even money says it's going to go up in price.