Buy To Let Parasite

DVardysShadow

dawyldthing wrote: »

but the other side of it is as a nation less people save and more spend every penny they have. I know countless people who have an expensive car, clothes, expensive holidays but don't have a penny in the bank as its all on credit.

True enough. The wealth transfer which is going on is give and take. BTLers are doing the taking. But there are enough credit junkies around P155ing their money away on stuff who are effectively giving away their potential for wealth

Callie22

dawyldthing wrote: »

but the other side of it is as a nation less people save and more spend every penny they have. I know countless people who have an expensive car, clothes, expensive holidays but don't have a penny in the bank as its all on credit.

But that's not just the province of ftb's. I'd hazard a guess that most of my landlords were only landlords because of easy credit, borrowing against their (mortgaged) houses to build up their btl empires. Hence why the service they provided was rubbish - they had no spare cash to do repairs and no contingency plan for when credit got harder to obtain. They thought that would never happen and the price of their property would just go up and up, and they could just keep borrowing. It's not really a change in people's attitude that's caused a problem for ftb's - spend, spend, spend isn't the attitude of most of the people I know. It's just a matter of a few years in which the global financial climate has changed. Ten, or even five years ago I probably could have easily got a mortgage in the position I'm currently in - now, it's nigh on impossible. I don't have an expensive car, expensive clothes, haven't been on holiday in about ten years and I have some savings, but it's not enough.

My previous LL didn't change her postal address because she didn't have permission to let so all of her bank stuff came to us. I also got a wee bit tired of seeing the 'it's time to upgrade your Bentley' leaflets, and the holiday brochures, especially when she kept telling us that she had no money for repairs or maintenance. Like I said, it's just a matter of a few years difference between those who can spend profligately and not save and get away with it (for now ...) and those who can't.

property.advert

I used to be a landlord. It was a fairly easy job to be honest but so is buying shares in FTSE 100 companies and watching the dividends roll in. The difference is that whilst investing in shares is applauded, buying and renting properties out to the (in the name of Nicholas van Hoogstraten) "scum" who cannot afford to buy is considered somewhat Rachmanesque.

Today, the divide has never been greater between those who are prepared to invest and the (in my words) "scum" who spend every penny they get, borrow at every opportunity and refuse to accept responsibility for any of their actions, always wanting the state, aka you and me, to pick up the tab.

Many people cannot buy houses but even in the good times, some people in some areas could not buy houses. Now they are more vocal as they drive around in their cars bought on HP, talking on new fangled expensive mobile phones, sitting in front of their plasma TVs bought on the never never, before retiring to their beds bought with the help of "interest free" credit over years and years, wondering why they only are permanently overdrawn.

Hammyman

DVardysShadow wrote: »

True enough. The wealth transfer which is going on is give and take. BTLers are doing the taking.

I am a landlord. The reason I am able to be one is that I grafted my backside off for 60 to 84 hours a week for over a decade and a half and have not had even a year on the dole in total since I left school two and a half decades and THREE recessions ago. I also didn't squander my money and get myself up to my eyeballs in debt. This allowed me to buy another house to upside without needing to sell the first so I am able to rent that house out to provide me with an additional income. And at some point I might decide to buy another - after all if I have the money to, why shouldn't I? Why should I not provide for my families future just to keep a bunch of debt ridden slackers happy?

If that is "taking" then so be it. Perhaps if you don't like renting your home or people having more money than you then maybe you should get off your lazy backside and put in the hours I did instead of whining on a forum about how bad things allegedly are.

theartfullodger

Hammy: Not sure the medication is working for you...

MissMoneypenny

It's quite simple really.

Countries where people are happy to rent (Germany, Austria, France etc) have:

• 3 years fixed tenancy which only the tenant can break (with good reason ie. moving areas for work) unless the tenant hasn't paid their rent.
• Capped rates for rents (so tenants have lots of disposable income after rent without the taxpayer paying top-up rents too)
• Landlords are made to reduce rent automatically, if their property impacts on the tenants quality of life (slow/no repairs, digging up of roads). Landlords know they have to repair their properties quickly, or have to reduce the rent.
• These government laws have pushed the slum/bad landlords, out of their countries.
• Renters in these counties have spare money; a landlord who is made to ensure their quality of life is good; and freedom to live where they like without the hastle of selling a property or repairs.
• People choose to rent, rather than be a slave to a mortgage for years.

Counties where people are unhappy to rent (UK)

• No secure tenancy. All the costs of moving in, finding schools, only to find out they are then told to get out in 6 months, or sooner if the landlord didn't have Consent to Let from their mortgage lender, or already had a repossession order on the house before they rented it.
• No government capped rents and they can find themselves working all hours just to pay the rent or being a burden on others for state welfare top-ups.
• Tenant has to take their landlord to court if he/she doesn't comply with the laws such as fixing their repairs in a timely manner or failing to proptect the deposit. Any complaints to the landlord and the landlord can just tell them to leave with a Section21. (We see this all the time from the bad landlords on this forum alone, who say "just give them a S21").
• These poor housing laws are a breeding ground for bad/slum landlords.
• Renters in the UK have no/little spare income. They have and no security in their homelife if they get one of the many bad landlords the UK is breeding.
• People want to be a slave to a mortgage to escape the bad landlords' and poor housing laws and to try to have some security (if they will be able to survive rising interest rates). Then they hopefully pay off their mortgage in 20/5 years and then have some spare cash at last. Quality of life in the UK is low compared to most other western EU countries.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out why people are happy to rent in countries with good housing laws and are unhappy to rent in countries like the UK, where there are bad housing laws. The UK is the '3rd world country' of Europe, with renting laws. It's time we caught up to our European cousins.

Feel free to cut and paste this to an email, for your MP. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

missile

I don't think OP has the moral fibre to be a LL. Your Tenants are not your friends.

You may think you are providing a socail service? Others see you as trying to make money from those less well off than you. In many peoples eyes that makes you a parasite.

N79

The comments apply more to Germany and France as I don't have any knowledge of Austrian LL&T scene (EDIT - OK the quoting thing has not really worked well!)

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

It's quite simple really.

Countries where people are happy to rent (Germany, Austria, France etc) have:

• 3 years fixed tenancy which only the tenant can break (with good reason ie. moving areas for work) unless the tenant hasn't paid their rent.
• Capped rates for rents (so tenants have lots of disposable income after rent without the taxpayer paying top-up rents too)

• This one is as much a function of having more housing and lower housing costs generally. Remember that the biggest contributor to the cost of housing in the South East is the cost of planning permission, followed by the cost of land. The three countries you site all have far more land and it is easier for individuals to build new houses.

  MissMoneypenny wrote: »

• Landlords are made to reduce rent automatically, if their property impacts on the tenants quality of life (slow/no repairs, digging up of roads). Landlords know they have to repair their properties quickly, or have to reduce the rent.You must mention the elephant in the room which is that Ts in these countries have repairing obligations. Yes, major structural repairs can lead to rent reductions but this is also the case in here in England (where you can sue for lack of services etc). The annoying features such as the broken boiler, leaking pipe etc are ofter T repair liability (depending on country) - so Ts can not complain about the lack speedy repairs. The fact that LLs do not have to do these often relatively expensive minor repairs is one of the factors that leads to lower rents.

  MissMoneypenny wrote: »

• These government laws have pushed the slum/bad landlords, out of their countries.
• Renters in these counties have spare money; a landlord who is made to ensure their quality of life is good; and freedom to live where they like without the hastle of selling a property or repairs.
• People choose to rent, rather than be a slave to a mortgage for years.You should also add that these countries give tax breaks for LLs which make UK LLs green with envy. This helps keep the cost of rent down.

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Counties where people are unhappy to rent (UK)

• No secure tenancy. All the costs of moving in, finding schools, only to find out they are then told to get out in 6 months, or sooner if the landlord didn't have Consent to Let from their mortgage lender, or already had a repossession order on the house before they rented it.
• No government capped rents and they can find themselves working all hours just to pay the rent or being a burden on others for state welfare top-ups.
• Tenant has to take their landlord to court if he/she doesn't comply with the laws such as fixing their repairs in a timely manner or failing to proptect the deposit.

• This is just as true in your other countries, where due legal process must be followed through. Just what sort of alternative did you have in mind?

  MissMoneypenny wrote: »

  Any complaints to the landlord and the landlord can just tell them to leave with a Section21. (We see this all the time from the bad landlords on this forum alone, who say "just give them a S21").

• These poor housing laws are a breeding ground for bad/slum landlords.
• Renters in the UK have no/little spare income. They have and no security in their homelife if they get one of the many bad landlords the UK is breeding.
• People want to be a slave to a mortgage to escape the bad landlords' and poor housing laws and to try to have some security (if they will be able to survive rising interest rates). Then they hopefully pay off their mortgage in 20/5 years and then have some spare cash at last. Quality of life in the UK is low compared to most other western EU countries.

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out why people are happy to rent in countries with good housing laws and are unhappy to rent in countries like the UK, where there are bad housing laws. The UK is the '3rd world country' of Europe, with renting laws. It's time we caught up to our European cousins.

Feel free to cut and paste this to an email, for your MP. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

I'm not arguing with your general view that we should have "continental" style LL & T rules. However, the downside of the continental approach is often missing and deserves to be discussed (eg Repairing obligations) and also the myth that it is continental style rules that lead to lower average rents (and thus that UK rents would significantly fall if only we changed our rules), rather than a general effect related to the cost of housing, land and planning permission as well as the tax treatment of housing.

wastedtalent

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

It's quite simple really.

Countries where people are happy to rent (Germany, Austria, France etc) have:

• 3 years fixed tenancy which only the tenant can break (with good reason ie. moving areas for work) unless the tenant hasn't paid their rent.
• Capped rates for rents (so tenants have lots of disposable income after rent without the taxpayer paying top-up rents too)
• Landlords are made to reduce rent automatically, if their property impacts on the tenants quality of life (slow/no repairs, digging up of roads). Landlords know they have to repair their properties quickly, or have to reduce the rent.
• These government laws have pushed the slum/bad landlords, out of their countries.
• Renters in these counties have spare money; a landlord who is made to ensure their quality of life is good; and freedom to live where they like without the hastle of selling a property or repairs.
• People choose to rent, rather than be a slave to a mortgage for years.

Counties where people are unhappy to rent (UK)

• No secure tenancy. All the costs of moving in, finding schools, only to find out they are then told to get out in 6 months, or sooner if the landlord didn't have Consent to Let from their mortgage lender, or already had a repossession order on the house before they rented it.
• No government capped rents and they can find themselves working all hours just to pay the rent or being a burden on others for state welfare top-ups.
• Tenant has to take their landlord to court if he/she doesn't comply with the laws such as fixing their repairs in a timely manner or failing to proptect the deposit. Any complaints to the landlord and the landlord can just tell them to leave with a Section21. (We see this all the time from the bad landlords on this forum alone, who say "just give them a S21").
• These poor housing laws are a breeding ground for bad/slum landlords.
• Renters in the UK have no/little spare income. They have and no security in their homelife if they get one of the many bad landlords the UK is breeding.
• People want to be a slave to a mortgage to escape the bad landlords' and poor housing laws and to try to have some security (if they will be able to survive rising interest rates). Then they hopefully pay off their mortgage in 20/5 years and then have some spare cash at last. Quality of life in the UK is low compared to most other western EU countries.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out why people are happy to rent in countries with good housing laws and are unhappy to rent in countries like the UK, where there are bad housing laws. The UK is the '3rd world country' of Europe, with renting laws. It's time we caught up to our European cousins.

Feel free to cut and paste this to an email, for your MP. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

This just makes mew onder why, with freedom of movement, people don't just move and rent in Germany or somewhere similar.

N79

wastedtalent wrote: »

This just makes mew onder why, with freedom of movement, people don't just move and rent in Germany or somewhere similar.

I did just that, when I was younger, although I can't say that differences in LL and T law factored in any way in the decision:D