Builder and subcontractor

eurows

I recently appointed a builder to put a conservatory up.He got a 'friend' to supply the glass and the windows. I paid throughout the job which in total was £9800.00. I finally owe £1494.20.

Just before I was about to pay by bacs the final payment. His 'friend' called up and said he had not been paid. The builder will not pay him. I called the builder who said he had paid him some money. Which I doubt. The 'friend' who I will call a subcontractor now says that I should pay him the balance of the payment.

My contract is with the builder for £9800. I feel if I pay the subcontractor I will have failed in my responsibility to fulfil my part of the contract. I do however feel guilt that the subcontractor has not been paid.

The subcontractor says that the windows (conservatory) are his property until the builder clears his debt.

To make the situation more complex the company the sub contractor bought the windows from (and has not yet paid) says I should pay them the balance. I feel the situation is getting rather unsavoury.

There are a few things I need answering:-

A. My contract is with the builder not the subcontractors? It is the subcontractors responsibility to ensure the builder pays them?

B. If the builder requests the balance of the payment weather or not he is paying his subcontractors he has every right to do so under the agreement I had with the builder?

C. Is there any instance where I could pay the subcontractor the balance?

D. If I pay the subcontractor am I agreeing by default responsibility for the subcontractors bill?

E. Has the subcontractor any rights over the work and equipment he supplied as part of the builders contract?

I was relatively concerned that the builder would pay the sub contractors enough to bring it to the attention of the subcontractors on more than two occassion. I was told by the subcontractor the builder was settling their account.

I have a record and signature from the builder of all payments made to them and the builder agrees the balance. But he wants it now paid to him. Even though I feel he has no intention of paying the subcontractor.

Any help and points of law would be appreciated.

mountainofdebt

Isn't some sort of scam where you pay the subcontractor and then the builder comes after you for the balance afterwards is it?

Personally if my contract is with the builder then that's who I would be paying.

mynameisdave

I would not even entertain paying the sub contractor. His dispute if with the builder.

mo786uk

I agree - do not pay the subscontractor - will be a world of hassle later

As to whether the the subcontractor owes all the stuff he has put in - well possibly. In theory he should chase the main builder. Presumably the stuff he has installed has lost a lot of vlaue now so no point taking it out - but you could be in a sticky position if he does. If he takes away the entire conservatory then you will have to sue the main builder for breach of contract.

somethingcorporate

Yep, don't entertain paying anyone else except the builder. Any dispute between the sub-contractor and the builder really has nothing to do with you.

unholyangel

Your contact is with the builder. The builder then contracted others to complete work on his behalf. You have no contract with them.

If the subcontractor contacts you again I would just tell him that you empathise with his situation and while you would have liked to give him the balance to ensure he got paid, from a legal perspective you can't or the builder could pursue you for outstanding payment.

I would be quite surprised if the builder didn't pay his subcontractors though. Around here builders generally work with each other on a regular basis and building relationships is key (if they agree to work together slightly cheaper, means they're more likely to get the job and the more they work together, the more they know whether the other guy is good or bad quality wise). If he doesn't pay them, he may find it difficult if not impossible to get any subcontractor to work for him again.

DVardysShadow

mo786uk wrote: »

If he takes away the entire conservatory then you will have to sue the main builder for breach of contract.

No, if the sub contractor takes it away, then the subcontractor is the one who should be sued and criminal action could be taken against him too.

bod1467

DVardysShadow wrote: »

No, if the sub contractor takes it away, then the subcontractor is the one who should be sued and criminal action could be taken against him too.

This exactly.

mo786uk

DVardysShadow wrote: »

No, if the sub contractor takes it away, then the subcontractor is the one who should be sued and criminal action could be taken against him too.

On what basis can he be sued? He is for all intents and purposes working for the original builder. If he does anything dodgy contractually - including taking parts away then you must sue the original builder because it is being done in his name/on his behalf.

There may be some tort against the subcontractor but its long winded.

Doubt any criminal action would be taken - technically the subscontractor is not stealing soemthing that is his. Ciminal damage? Not if he takes it all back in a proper fashion without causing any damage to existing property.

eurows

I would have thought that once he has completed the work for the builder. Anything he does after that without the homeowner or builders permission is done illegally.

My initial concerns were raised after reading some legal sites that had UK in them and were based on Calafornian law. Which states that the homeowner is responsible to both the contractor and the subcontractors. Meaning that if the builder did not pay the sub contractors then you were responsible and could end up paying the bill twice. I think it was called mechanics Lein

I was trying to find out at what point the subcontractors lose the right over the proeprty they once owned.

If I bought a kettle from currys and currys went bust the kettle company does not own the kettle still if they were not paid in the first place.

What makes this a little more complicated is the company who knocked on my door is the window company who sold the sub contractor the windows. The window company has now not been paid by the sub contractor. So the sub contractor who asked me to pay him direct when he found that the builder would not pay him then told the window company to come round and ask for payment.

I think it may be a case of bully boy tactics. Where does this all stop then. What about the chemical company who sold the chemicals to the window company. Will I get them next?

eurows

On what basis can he be sued? He is for all intents and purposes working for the original builder. If he does anything dodgy contractually - including taking parts away then you must sue the original builder because it is being done in his name/on his behalf.

Taking the windows back is not being done on the builders behalf. As a subcontractor he sold the builder the windows and the service of installing them. If he takes them down he can be sued for trespass and any damage caused surely?