Long term insomnia, is there anything that can be done?

jenniewb

Youdontseeme wrote: »

I used to use a certain night time cough medicine a lot for sleep, while I dont think it is addictive the amount you need to make you feel sleepy increases as you get used to it. For the price of it a bottle of plonk may do the same thing :rotfl:and taste a hell of a lot nicer (I do no thats not the answer!)

I do feel for you, the past few weeks I have been dropping off to sleep fine (which is unusal for me but work has been manic so I am b*ggered) but I keep waking up between 3 and 4 and so wide awake I have to get up. This morning I was baking browines at 4.30!

I feel like I could sleep standing up at the mo but to scared to have a nap incase I cant sleep later.

Did you try the Paul McKenna thing?
I think it works for me as you have to concentrate on the breathing / counting, you cant think of any other "guff" that goes around your head.

YDSM

It is addictive I'm afraid- I remember doing the same thing last year and infact came home tonight with a horrible headache....until I took some of the stuff! Could just be me, a doctor even agreed I was "sensitive to the side effects of everything"! I stopped reading bottle labels a long while back to see if it made any difference, it doesn't seem to as I seem to get the mentioned side effects even if I don't read things (eg its not psychosomatic).

I haven't been able to try the Paul McKenna thing- I have been so broke this week its scary, not been able to go shopping for food the past few days and I am used to shopping daily so was existing on random odd bits, then finished off some wine tonight when visiting my mum- pretty sure I got all the calories in and then some at the very least, just not the right nutrition! Hoping to have enough after this week to order the book- then just gotta work out how to get something to play it on whilst I try to sleep- I don't have anything to do this with past an MP3 player with earphones I'd be too scared to break when in bed!

So around 2 weeks to try it! But am hoping to see my doctor in the next week to see if anything medical can be done, the answer has always been 'nope' before but am wondering if they have anything they can suggest- its been about a year since I last asked.

Youdontseeme

Might it be worth trying your local library for a copy?

Pointless buying it if it wont work for you, and even if they dont have the sleep one they make have the confidence one of change your life (nothing harmful lol)

I didn't have an mp3 until recently and just used to play it on on a normal CD player, although headphones are supposed to be better something to do with one side being better for you subconsious than the other. I now use my MP3 player with earphones not broken them yet but do wonder if I might strangle myself one night!

YDSM

jenniewb

Youdontseeme wrote: »

Might it be worth trying your local library for a copy?

Pointless buying it if it wont work for you, and even if they dont have the sleep one they make have the confidence one of change your life (nothing harmful lol)

I didn't have an mp3 until recently and just used to play it on on a normal CD player, although headphones are supposed to be better something to do with one side being better for you subconsious than the other. I now use my MP3 player with earphones not broken them yet but do wonder if I might strangle myself one night!

YDSM

I think I'd rather buy some sort of a docking system- my earphones were a gift, they are by Shure and were nearing £100, yes really (and if you want to know if they are worth it? Yes, 100 times over! I now can see small children/mobile phone users/be on the tube and....no noise aside from whats coming from the earphones! Better yet, no one else is subject to my musical tastes, excellent though they may be!)
I have no major concerns over a cheaper model if all I'm gonna be using them for is this. It did make me wonder weather or not hypnosis is available on the NHS though! *awaits nasty person to shout at me for even imagining this...* Will check my library, have no idea if they have this in...

nix_2

Hi

Just looked that this thread and thought I'd give my thoughts. I've been suffering from insomnia for about a year now. Always used to sleep well but now I constantly wake up during the night. I never have a problem getting off to sleep and sleep well till about 2-3 in the morning. Then I just keep going straight into REM sleep and my dreams keep waking me.

I tried all the sleep hygiene stuff mentioned here - herbal remedies, no caffeine, baths, etc but to no avail. I tried the Paul McKenna CD and yes it got me off to sleep (which wasn't the problem) it was a pain having to hook it up to my ears all through the night. I have been told it could be my body clock is completely out of kilt and needs resetting but I've tried that too. I've tried magnesium, 5-htp, melatonin (which actually makes my dreams more mental), antihistamines, Vit D in a morning, blu-ray SAD lamp etc. I then went to the doctor to have tests for early menopause, thyroid, diabetes, cholesterol etc which can all cause insomnia but all came back good. She referred me to a sleep clinic and I went to a specialist in Manchester but he simple said I don't have sleep apnea so he recommended anti-anxiety pills for a trial period even though I'm not anxious or depressed. He said they would control my dream state which is the cause of me waking up and suppress it.

Bizarrely, just before going to him I was actually starting to sleep a bit better - just waking once or twice but spoke to my doctor and decided to give the medication a go. I've been on them about 10 days but as yet I can't see a real difference but have been told they could take several weeks to kick in.

I certainly think the magnesium and calcium is a good thing and the vit D in a morning. Also vit B can be good for sleep too so a complex pill could help early evening. I also took 5-htp which produces serotonin which then turns to melatonin and makes you relaxed however some people prefer to take this in a morning. I've heard St. Johns Wort is good to take with 5-htp as a calming combo.

jenniewb

Thanks for that Nix, the sleep clinic people seemed to have a similar method to helping you: if is not life and death they don't seem interested. The problem is though that it affects my being able to do things like a "proper job" and shift working is my only option. It means lower pay less (or no) career options because I simply cannot get out of bed at a decent hour in the morning. I was lucky my degree enabled me to get to college at 12pm and stay until 9.30pm as oppose to others who came in at 8.30am and left at 5pm. But thats Art college for you!

I haven't taken any B-Vitamins for a while, used to take them whilst I had my periods which seem to have vanished...(seeing another doctor about that next year) seems my body just doesn't want to work properly! The 5-htp I'd never heard of before and I'll ask my doctor about that, its not something they've ever suggested to me but then no one has suggested anything in the past other then melatonine or "just get out of bed earlier in the morning" (which would be great if I could just wake up to one of my 4 alarm clocks...).

Have been taking the calcium pills in the day time, not noticed any difference yet but its only been a week. Had my thyriod done in July when I really wasn't very well with something else (depression anxiety issues) but it came back fine, I had the test because my periods seem to have stopped for no reason but apparently its not as a result of my thyriod so I'm imagining everything else is fine. I don't tend to have a problem with sleeping when I do manage to, its more that I cannot get to sleep so maybe the CD will help- fingers crossed!

The melatonine gave you hallucinagenic dreams? (if thats the right word) I have dreams I'd rather forget, without going into details, I don't like dreaming and cannot recall ever having a dream I liked, that makes me worry, do you think the melatonine would make it worse?

nix_2

Hi Jen.

I certainly would give the Paul McKenna CD a go then if it's getting off to sleep that is your problem. It's about 20 minutes in length and I'm usually off by 10 minutes into it!

If you can, I would get a separate magnesium tablet to take before bedtime too but make sure it's a good one like magnesium citrate (more expensive but it absorbs into your body better). The oxide version in most tablets is rubbish and doesn't absorb. 5-htp is very popular now. It's taken as a herbal anti depressant, sleep aid, general feel-good remedy. You can get it on ebay cheap or Holland and Barrett. Some people take it with St John's Wort. I would also try the Vit B complex too as Vit B12 can be really good for sleep. It actually helps release natural melatonin quicker so you become tired and get off to sleep quicker.

My dreams aren't unpleasant. They are actually quite mad and funny but they do keep waking me up. I usually remember 2-3 dreams a night so it's quite tiring.

Youdontseeme

Ok well I thought I had solved my issues but the waking up mega early is starting to p*ss me off!

I have been awake since 4 and up since 5 I live in a flat so cant really do anything (ie washing cleaning ) that makes noise till 8. my sky+ is clear apart from a crappy xmas film. This is my 9th day of waking arounf 4ish and I think I am starting to go a bit crazy!

This is all new for me, my problem used to be getting off (busy head!) but now while its not easy getting off to sleep, the waking up is KILLING me!

How are you doing Jennie?

jenniewb

Youdontseeme wrote: »

Ok well I thought I had solved my issues but the waking up mega early is starting to p*ss me off!

I have been awake since 4 and up since 5 I live in a flat so cant really do anything (ie washing cleaning ) that makes noise till 8. my sky+ is clear apart from a crappy xmas film. This is my 9th day of waking arounf 4ish and I think I am starting to go a bit crazy!

This is all new for me, my problem used to be getting off (busy head!) but now while its not easy getting off to sleep, the waking up is KILLING me!

How are you doing Jennie?

Hi,- wow- I feel so bad, I hadn't even considered my neighbours and cleaning at 4am (not that I do this at 4am!!) I have to say though that for me, its like my body is exhausted at that time, my hea just isn't. I do go to bed still but just lie awake, it does seem to help physically to do this if only a little bit as I find I'm a little bit less achey the next day. Lieing upside down or feet raised above my shoulder level can help too though you only need to do this for 30 mins or so, helps with fluid retention.

I'm still not doing so well though, not gone past the 8am stage for falling asleep (yes really, am lying awake until 8pm before falling asleep and then missing all 4 of my alarm clocks!) in the past few days I had been taking a sleeping medication for coughs and colds and falling asleep at around 6am, just about managed to get up week days but this weekend I've slept in until 2-3pm!!! Scary!! However I cannot begin to describe to you how much better I felt physically, just so much better- I'd forgotten how fantastic it feels to not have so many aches and pains, wish I were able to sleep properly and feel like that in the morning after waking.

Did try another doctors appointment, again, slept in for it, not yet been able to see the doctor.

Did try the 5htp which seemed not to make any difference, I should add I already eat chicken and turkey for dinner as I read somewhere a few years ago that it helps with sleep (both meats are rich in 5htp apparently) so maybe why the pills aren't making any difference.

The calcium/magnesium I had been taking, do take the edge of the feeling wide awake, not enough to make me sleep but its a nicer feeling then being on full alert at 3am.

I am yet to try melatonine and I had tried the CD but just really struggling with the comatosed voice thing- think its just a psychologically built up thing in my head, the trying to relax to a voice telling you how...its just something I find difficult as it makes me squirm.
We used to do this sort of thing at school and the entire class would end up in a fit of giggles, none of us taking it seriously (and why would you lying either on the floor of the sports hall in your full school uniform or on the desk of a glass that the previous week had been used to take your English lesson and exam in!) so maybe where that comes from, just don't feel relaxed at all and feeling closer to irritation, I have tried these in the past and even been in hospital long term with a nurse taking a group of us to do this with and again had the same fit of giggles and irritation thing. Guess there are just some things this sort of thing works for and others it just does not.

Do think its a good sign that last week I wasn't falling asleep until 8am and this weekend its been closer to 6am but then again I'm not pleased its meaning I sometimes go without sleep some days and worry that even with it being better, I'm still at risk of missing certain important appointments as I have done already.

Did consider another new alarm clock and for some reason if someone knocks on the door, 9/10 times I manage to hear it and get up! Am seriously SO GRATEFUL for boots sending me large products to try on their boots trials as thats what woke me up just in time this past week!

Badger_Lady

I'm lucky enough that I don't have long-term issues... however I do jet around a lot for work and find myself in different time zones, and if I'm not careful my circadian rhythm is totally messed up and my body literally forgets how to sleep for weeks at a time. It's as you described - lying awake all night and then groggy in the day.

So I now stick rigidly to a routine that guarantees my rhythm will return:

- A complex carbohydrate evening meal (such as pasta with no meat) a few hours before bedtime. It's not advised for weightloss, however the carbs do trigger a 'night time' reaction and tell your body that it's the evening.

- Two tablets of melatonin about 30 minutes before getting into bed. Self-prescribed - I get it off a shelf in American drug stores.

- I also have a Phillips wake-up light that simulates dusk, so I go to bed with a cosy warm light that gradually dims until it's dark.

- The same light wakes me up by gradually brightening and playing bird song in the morning, and as soon as I'm awake I make a conscious effort to:
-- Get up immediately - no chilling out in bed
-- Eat something immediately - I usually have a cereal bar handy which I eat on my way to the shower, then have a proper protein breakfast when I have more time. This tells your body that it's time to wake up.

- The Energy Light boosts my seratonin and tells my body that it's a bright sunshiny day and that I should be full of energy. I can also use that again later in the day if I'm flagging.

The routine doesn't usually work right away - I'll either struggle to get off to sleep or struggle to get up in the morning - but after a few days my body gets the hang of it and starts playing along.

I have to say the Melatonin tablets are a massive, massive help in making this work. Why aren't you keen on them? They're not sleeping tablets - they don't knock you out - they just make you feel initially sleepy.

Skymist

I fortunately don't have any problems falling asleep, like a lot of you poor folks, but came across this yesterday:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066354/The-Thatcher-gene-Scientists-discover-secret-internal-alarm-clock-allows-just-hours-sleep.html

Also this is an interesting take on why lots of people might....me included...wake up during the night ( apart from hot flushes, night sweats and loo calls!):-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep

I read about this elsewhere, where it was suggested that the segmented sleep pattern was what helped our ancestors survive in the past, during the night, when there were a lot of wild animals roaming about ( insert a "shrug" smilie!).

S