Long term insomnia, is there anything that can be done?

jenniewb

Thanks for the replies

Bitsy_Beans wrote: »

As far as I am aware melatonin is only unlicenced for children. It is in fact a hormone that we naturally produce but some people for example people with Autism Spectrum Disorders don't make enough of their own. Bananas can help with the production of melatonin, google it as I think there are a couple more foods too.
I watched a programme on insomnia and the sleep clinic there insisted that the participants did not lie in. They went to bed and got up at the same time every day, regardless as to how much sleep they'd had over the course of the night.

You could try White noise eg radio static, works for babies LOL

However all this is meaningless if you don't deal with your anxiety issues. Are you anxious because you don't sleep or do you worry about other stuff? Meditation as one poster suggested can be really good for quieting the mind.

Good luck, have had sleepless nights but never chronic insomnia. You all have my sympathy x

I read that its banned because it can mess with the strains of your DNA and cause problems as bad as cancer. Not read as a scare story in the news or even on a forum but on a medically based UK website explaining why we have limits on certain medications, vitamins and similar that the US don't seem to have. Sorry but I'm with them on this one, cancer does run in my dads side of the family and it freaks me out. I cannot take this stuff and not feel worried about this. Will look up other foods though, my dietition suggested carbs (complex version) but I haven't eaten carbs for about 10 years now, not something I can do. The problem begun more then 10 years ago though so am not to concerned thats the cause.

I wish I was able to get up every morning at the same time! Chances are I am only able to get between 2-5 hours week days (I have to be up at a certain time) there are some nights though when I don't sleep at all- these are becomming more and more frequent and then I sleep for up to 12 hours at the weekend and my brain seems to override any alarm clocks I have, any sunlight through the windows and can land me at 4pm or later having lost the day! (Though has 'only' gotten as bad as 2pm, which happened today, prior to that I was doing quite well at 12pm weekends and woke up tierd but thought I still had a grip...) I need someone to shake me and physically wake me up I think!

I don't think it helps that I wake up and feel so achey. Thats all being researched into- it seems the less I move around the more I ache. I had thought I was being OTT but had a diagnoses of cartilidge damage in my knees earlier this year. My knees ache but nothing compared to my back/hips and ankles. I asked the NHS Direct people and they said it is Osteoarthritis which pulled me back to the GP who has referred me for further tests from a specialist about my back and ankle. Maybe partly why I don't find it so easy to wake and so seem to sleep through so many alarms (well, that and sleep deprivation!).

newmumincov wrote: »

Can I also suggest meditation? Depending on where you are, you might be able to get free beginners sessions through Buddhist groups (though some charge). I've found that quite helpful, and the religious aspect isn't pushed particularly hard.

I have tried meditation in the past, I also have a friend who is very into Buddism and think alot of people who can meditate. For me however, its not something I find I can do. Its the facing your demons part: though meditation is supposed to help you to arrive at a mindlessness state of mind, it does promote a sort of mindfullness day to day when you are more aware of everything- that part of things is what makes me anxious (seeking help from psychiatric services at the moment for this). Psychiatrist suggested anti depressants but I've had such bad experiences with them and actually wanted to try deal with my *issues* in a way I can make sense of them- ie not desensitised. I worry that anti depressants create for me a false sense of security, I think I'm fine but actually its the drugs talking!

I just am not sure I'm ready for meditiation- its like the few moments (or for me the few hours) while you lie down to sleep and slowly fall asleep. Going through that is what I find so difficult and why I find it hard. That I think inflates the anxiety I have through the night beforehand and why I don't feel tierd enough to sleep- sometimes at all.

newmumincov wrote: »

I personally find I need to take my vit D3 early or they will keep me up at night. However I take 10,000 IU Vit D3 daily which is quite high. I take it with magnesium but not calcium (though that's through a couple of year's experimentation and just what works for me personally)

I take my pills mainly for calcium- maybe will see if I can try taking it earlier and if it helps, normally give these things 2 weeks so will see if it helps. Thanks for the tip.

jenniewb

OK, so I found this:
http://www.ehow.com/list_7458902_foods-produce-melatonin_.html

--hence my ideas on calcium late at night, I don't eat dairy but do take the pills, they need vitamin D to work so taking them earlier seems tricky, I feel so tierd until about 5pm (when out of nowhere even having had zero hours asleep I feel wide awake and with the energy levels comparible to a small dog).

I also found this:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5491365_food-containing-melatonin.html

I do eat too much fruit and tomatoes already (tomatoes because they are in season and taste delicious with balsamic vinegar and pepper, fruit because I love it, apples and melon tends to be what I stick to). Though I'm not sure if I should eat any more, I eat alot already and its actually created vitamin A irregularities in me (my skin is an odd shade of yellow and I get comments all the time on using gloves when I apply fake tan- its not fake tan its too much fruit!).

The oats and carbs- really can't do that, had legnthy discussions with a dietition about that before and just isn't do able for me.

Ginger I thought was keeping me awake. I used to drink Ginger Beer at night and read that ginger was a stimulant- a bit like caffiene is and apparently great in the morning. I stopped drinking it at night, didn't really notice any difference but didn't want to push it incase it was keeping me awake.

Humphrey10

jenniewb wrote: »

I read that its banned because it can mess with the strains of your DNA and cause problems as bad as cancer. Not read as a scare story in the news or even on a forum but on a medically based UK website

It can't have been a UK website, because melatonin isn't banned in the UK. It's not available over the counter, but it's not banned. Many things are not available over the counter.

I have no idea why your doctor was unable to find melatonin in his book of stuff to prescribe. Maybe it needs to be prescribed first by a consultant (the sleep specialist you saw), in the same way that after being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, my GP would not prescibe me insulin, I had to see a consultant a few days later and get it prescribed first from them. This doesn't mean insulin is 'banned'.

The website you read was talking nonsense about melatonin btw, you can find websites written by nutters saying anything causes cancer if you look hard enough.

cattkitt

There are various forms of meditation. I think this is a simple form of "physical meditation", which involves no soul searching:

Sit comfortably
Close your eyes
Relax your eyes (about 10 seconds, but don't bother counting, it spoils it, just focus on relaxing your eyes)
Relax your mouth
Relax your shoulders
Relax your arms
Relax your hands
Relax your chest
Name any other bits you like

Relax your feet
Relax your toes

Open your eyes
Take a deep breath and release

Shake your hands like you're shaking off water
If you can, do that with your feet
Stretch with your arms above your head

I found it immensely comforting. It was like a weird self hug, caring for yourself.

I've had tai chi, dance and yoga teachers do variations of this.

newmumincov

jenniewb wrote: »

I have tried meditation in the past, I also have a friend who is very into Buddism and think alot of people who can meditate. For me however, its not something I find I can do. Its the facing your demons part: though meditation is supposed to help you to arrive at a mindlessness state of mind, it does promote a sort of mindfullness day to day when you are more aware of everything- that part of things is what makes me anxious (seeking help from psychiatric services at the moment for this). Psychiatrist suggested anti depressants but I've had such bad experiences with them and actually wanted to try deal with my *issues* in a way I can make sense of them- ie not desensitised. I worry that anti depressants create for me a false sense of security, I think I'm fine but actually its the drugs talking!

I just am not sure I'm ready for meditiation- its like the few moments (or for me the few hours) while you lie down to sleep and slowly fall asleep. Going through that is what I find so difficult and why I find it hard. That I think inflates the anxiety I have through the night beforehand and why I don't feel tierd enough to sleep- sometimes at all.

The most simple types of meditation certainly do not involve any facing of demons.

Basic breathing meditation involves focusing on/counting the breath, to the exlusion of everything else. You are not supposed to focus on your mind, only on the breath. I find this very useful, as my mind has a tendency to race.

Theravada Buddhism (vietnamese) teaches this kind of meditation almost to the exlusion of anything else, and it's the basic beginners type of meditation in Tibetan Buddhism (I've tried both types)

Some info on this kind of meditation can be found at
http://serenityonlinetherapy.com/meditation.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03nifVj9pqI&feature=related
http://www.vipassana.com/audio_files/anapra.php

Bumpmakesfour

Had to post RE:melatonin.My DS has aspergers/ADHD and takes 12mgs(upto 15mgs most nights) to help him with his sleep disorder,he's nearly 9 now but started taking it at just over 5 years old.It has to be prescribed by a specialist first then the GP will issue the repeat prescription.We have never been told of any of the scary side effects that you mention.I don't think they'd be handing them to young kids if that were the case??
I'm an insomniac and use that "quiet" time in the early hours to iron or wash floors :rotfl:

Alybea

Have you tried an eyemask? Like the ones you get on planes?
Blackout curtains for your head - but much cheaper.

There seems to be lots of over lapping issues - anxiety, eating disorder which are affecting your sleep. Have you spoken to your dietician about your insomnia, could they refer you to a sleep clinic?

Violetta_2

Youdontseeme wrote: »

Paul McKenna actually does a a CD & book just for insomnia now its only £8.31 from his website

http://www.paulmckenna.com/sleep-product.aspx?rpid=189&prodid=222

I think it is defo worth a go for under a tenner.

Good luck!

YDSM

It's a bit cheaper on Amazon at £6.79 as other's have said it's worth a shot. Was your eyemask too tight perhaps? It might be worth trying another kind.

jenniewb

newmumincov wrote: »

The most simple types of meditation certainly do not involve any facing of demons.

Basic breathing meditation involves focusing on/counting the breath, to the exlusion of everything else. You are not supposed to focus on your mind, only on the breath. I find this very useful, as my mind has a tendency to race.

Theravada Buddhism (vietnamese) teaches this kind of meditation almost to the exlusion of anything else, and it's the basic beginners type of meditation in Tibetan Buddhism (I've tried both types)

Some info on this kind of meditation can be found at
http://serenityonlinetherapy.com/meditation.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03nifVj9pqI&feature=related
http://www.vipassana.com/audio_files/anapra.php

But thats just it- the whole part of meditation where you let go- I can't do it: scary things go on in my mind when I stop thinking and they cause me so much anxiety- this is why I find it hard to sleep also.

I guess its fair to say even the idea od meditiation scares me for that very reason. I know I need to pull-myself-together but this is hard- sort of like my nemisis and I don't know if its something I could do alone, let alone late at night when I'm by myself. I don't know if I will ever be able to and hope that my therapy helps me get to a point where I'm not constantly running away from my own mind! Its a insane way to live but I doubt I'm alone in living like that.

In the mean time the best way I have found to get around the whole sleep thing is to either knock myself out with pills or exhaust myself with exercise and day to day things, that way I have no time to think when I try to sleep. Wish it were different but for at least the past 15-20 years its been like this. (I'm 30 if its any help.)

Thanks for the links though, maybe one day....

jenniewb

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

Had to post RE:melatonin.My DS has aspergers/ADHD and takes 12mgs(upto 15mgs most nights) to help him with his sleep disorder,he's nearly 9 now but started taking it at just over 5 years old.It has to be prescribed by a specialist first then the GP will issue the repeat prescription.We have never been told of any of the scary side effects that you mention.I don't think they'd be handing them to young kids if that were the case??
I'm an insomniac and use that "quiet" time in the early hours to iron or wash floors :rotfl:

And your children have never had any other issues? Hmmm, maybe will ask again my doctor and at least see if they can referer me so I can ask again (if the same specialist is there after so many years!)