At risk and pregnant/ HR mtg - what to ask?

pippitypip_2

Hi All,

My friend is pregnant (due on maternity leave early Dec; baby due mid Jan), been notified she is at risk (90 days notice) - consultation period as massive restructuring.

Can she take someone with her to any HR meetings to ask questions on her behalf and take notes for her? Would there be any likely repurcussions for the person going with her if allowed (potentially me)?

Also, any key questions that should be asked?

There are 4 new jobs that 20 people (who are at risk) have to apply for but the job is vastly different. can she refuse to apply or does she have to interview for it when she doesn't have the prerequisite skills or desire to do the job?

Many thanks,
pippitypip

Acc72

pippitypip wrote: »

Hi All,

My friend is pregnant (due on maternity leave early Dec; baby due mid Jan), been notified she is at risk (90 days notice) - consultation period as massive restructuring.

Can she take someone with her to any HR meetings to ask questions on her behalf and take notes for her? Would there be any likely repurcussions for the person going with her if allowed (potentially me)?

Also, any key questions that should be asked?

There are 4 new jobs that 20 people (who are at risk) have to apply for but the job is vastly different. can she refuse to apply or does she have to interview for it when she doesn't have the prerequisite skills or desire to do the job?

Many thanks,
pippitypip

Ok, so 20 people are to be put at risk and there will be 4 jobs available ?

Your friend does not have to apply for one of those 4 jobs if she does not want to (although the alternative will almost certainly be redundancy).

With regards to the meeting - are you employed by the same company ? Even so, it is very unlikely that you would be allowed to attend.

It is probably best for your friend to get all of the facts and see what the company has to say.

pippitypip_2

Thanks Acc.

Yes, 20 people in her dept (larger number overall).

We are employed by the same company but in different departments. I thought you were allowed to take someone else with you to these meetings to help take notes etc? She's struggling to take it all in, esp with being pregnant.

Thanks,
Pippa.

hcb42

you are allowed to take notes in disciplinaries..as I understand it.

Your friend cannot be discriminated against purely because she is pregnant, although it does not sound like this is the case here.

Not sure what you mean when you say she cannot take it in esp. as being pregnant? . As far as I know, pregnancy does not affect the brain cells to any degree :P Everyone affected has to take it in of course.

caeler

Your friend is allowed to have a work colleague or trade union representative, you will qualify even if you work in a different department. It would seem very unreasonable not to allow you. If these meetings form part of individual consultation then they do attract the right to be accompanyed.

Also, your friend gets very unique rights as soon as she commences maternity leave. The right is that she is entitled to be offered any 'suitable alternative' role. That does not mean, interviewed for, that means straight out offered. Offered also means, offered against any more suitable candiates! She should ask questions about this and how the company intend to support her identifying any suitable alternative roles. Appreciate you said she was at risk along with 20 colleagues and there are 4 new roles available which are vastly different, however outside of that there may be other roles worth asking about.

Most company's will view a suitable alternative as same salary, grade, location and similar type of role ie. if she is an administrator now, would expect administrative type roles to fall under this.

Other questions that come to mind:

Establish the business case and find out why the change is necessary.
Find out what alternative's were considered to avoid the redundancy before this solution was progressed.
When did the collective consultation commence?
Establish why it is 90 days (ie. legal obligation because more than 100 people are impacted as a specific location/establishment or because the company want to).
Who is her representative during the collective consultation? (Was your friend given the opportunity to nomination a representative or is this being done via trade unions?)
Where can she view questions and answers from the collective consultation?
You need to establish if individual consultation is happening at the same time as collective consulation or afterwards. (ie. if they will commence the selection process before or after she goes on maternity leave, if before then she will not get the unique rights referred to above).
Establish if she was made redundant when her last day would fall and establish the impact on maternity pay entitlement.
Discuss how Keeping in Touch days could be used to support the consultation process and help her feel more included in the workplace during this critical time.

I remember your original question was about note taking too, as a work colleague during these meetings you can take the meetings, you can participate in the meeting if your friend permits but you may not answer questions on her behalf and you can also call an adjournment if you think your friend needs a moment if she's struggling emotionally (you suggested she's struggling to take this all in, quite understandably). Importantly you can also request HR's notes of the meeting. They won't fancy a data protection act request which can be avoided by just providing them!

pippitypip_2

Many thanks caeler, this is so useful.

hcb42, no she's not lost her mind because she's pregnant or worried about being discriminated against. However her main priority is her baby, she's very shocked as she didn't expect it and just like going to the doctors to get results, you often don't take everything in yourself in a redundancy meeting (pregnant or not; most people struggle to take in all the details and ask all the right questions on their own at these times) and is good to have an independent person there to take notes for you if you can; esp as we don't have unions.

Thanks so much for all posts.

pippitypip

Jarndyce

caeler wrote: »

Your friend is allowed to have a work colleague or trade union representative, you will qualify even if you work in a different department. It would seem very unreasonable not to allow you. If these meetings form part of individual consultation then they do attract the right to be accompanyed.

Also, your friend gets very unique rights as soon as she commences maternity leave. The right is that she is entitled to be offered any 'suitable alternative' role. That does not mean, interviewed for, that means straight out offered. Offered also means, offered against any more suitable candiates! She should ask questions about this and how the company intend to support her identifying any suitable alternative roles. Appreciate you said she was at risk along with 20 colleagues and there are 4 new roles available which are vastly different, however outside of that there may be other roles worth asking about.

Couple of points on this:

a) There is no right to be acompanied at redundancy consultation meetings. Indeed there are no statutory rules governing individual consultation, and no need to actually hold such meetings at all!

b) The right for women on maternity leave to be given preference over others is no longer as black and white following the recent case of Simpson v Endsleigh. Effectively this means that the woman is required to engage proactively with the employer over suitable vacancies, as otherwise the employer can decide based on its knowledge of the employee that a particular vacancy is unsuitable. this is particularly important if the woman is willing to accept less hours less status etc as such posts would be automatically rules unsuitable otherwise by the employer.

c) You are assuming that there is collective consultation going on here - It isn't actually clear. OP has said there are no unions involved. Just because the employer may be having a 90 day consultation doesn't necessarily indicate a collective consultation - although I accept it is sensible to ask the question, and those that would consequently follow.

Also OP - be very clear it is your friend's respnsibility to get involved and take in what is said at meetings - her pregnancy in itself will be no excuse not to do this. Pregnancy itself is not an illness.

pippitypip_2

Many thanks Jarndyce.

Was planning to have my friend ask HR anyway if she can be accompanied (it wasn't offered that she could take someone).

There is a collective consultation.

Understood, it's less do to with the fact she's pregnant and more to do with her being worried she doesn't understand what's going on generally with the redundancy and what (if any) effects this has on her maternity leave and pay (usually very generous at our firm).

Usually at my firm, you get told you're at risk and then immediately you leave work and don't come back. She's still working; very unusual. No-one seems to know what's going on and there is very little information/ guidance. She doesn't know what to ask and left the first meeting without any idea of what had actually been said (typical HR??).

I may not attend with her now, I think the fact that I've offered and am talking to her about it has made her feel better and she understands what to ask now.

With regards to suitable vacancies the 4 open require skills she doesn't have; I would assume then that they wouldn't qualify as "suitable vacancies" ? secretary currently - paralegal/ admin/ conference organiser (in one role) is what's being created x 4.

Thanks again, much appreciated.
pippitypip

Jarndyce

pippitypip wrote: »

With regards to suitable vacancies the 4 open require skills she doesn't have; I would assume then that they wouldn't qualify as "suitable vacancies" ? secretary currently - paralegal/ admin/ conference organiser (in one role) is what's being created x 4.

It would be up to her to argue/show that they were suitable. Paralegal covers a multitude of sins but could be little more than a legal secretary, and a secretary would surely have the skills and experience to cover admin and conference organiser roles?

pippitypip_2

Thanks. New role would require review of legal docs and conferences/ event planning not covered in current role (traditional secretary/ PA).

Plus as a working Mum, she doesn't want the additional duties and would prefer doing her traditional job. The current job is 9-5, the new job would officially contracted at 9-5 but realistically would in practise require (be expected but not in writing) longer working hours (we all sign the waiver to work longer than the 38 hour or whatever it is per week when we join the company).

Jarndyce

pippitypip wrote: »

Thanks. New role would require review of legal docs and conferences/ event planning not covered in current role (traditional secretary/ PA).

Plus as a working Mum, she doesn't want the additional duties and would prefer doing her traditional job. The current job is 9-5, the new job would officially contracted at 9-5 but realistically would in practise require (be expected but not in writing) longer working hours (we all sign the waiver to work longer than the 38 hour or whatever it is per week when we join the company).

For the reasons she states the new roles could arguably be unsuitable, but if the employer insisted they were suitable, I would not like to be the one arguing the opposite in a tribunal. With respect, what she wants is just not going to be available in the new structure. Does she want to be made redundant? Because that is the logical conclusion of her taking the position she is taking, especially given the numbers involved.