Housing in South West now 11.6x average salary

Idiophreak

Jimmy_31 wrote: »

DEJA VU.

- HAMISH made a "spurious assertion" about house prices "round his way"

- A lot of people pointed out he was talking nonsense

- HAMISH disappeared from the thread (WITH A PROPER GOB ON) to start another one about HOUSE PRICES RISING/HOUSE PRICE BOOM COMING/ WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE BTL LANDLORD.

Hamish never returns to the original thread.

When you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen Hamish and Graham online at the same time....;)

ukcarper

doire wrote: »

I could link an article which states its 38 but why bother eh? The good old BBC are always right

Can you provide that link the CML say that the median age for ftb without assistance was 31 in 2010.

Conrad

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I don't see much point in responding to you too be honest - sorry.

I think you bottled debating him.

He rightly tries to understand what your beef is, broadly framed as 'the system is broken, it's less fair on FTB now'.

Over and again you imply FTB are having it so much harder now, but others of us recognise there is ample supply of affordable properties available to FTB on modest incomes in the South West.

In other words there's nothing to moan about.

You seemed put out with the idea FTB might have to inhabit a 1 bed flat!
Others seem to think FTB 's are entitled to a 3 bed house in readyness for child rearing whereas the rest of us took it one step at a time.

Graham_Devon

Conrad wrote: »

I think you bottled debating him.

He rightly tries to understand what your beef is, broadly framed as 'the system is broken, it's less fair on FTB now'.

Over and again you imply FTB are having it so much harder now, but others of us recognise there is ample supply of affordable properties available to FTB on modest incomes in the South West.

In other words there's nothing to moan about.

You seemed put out with the idea FTB might have to inhabit a 1 bed flat!
Others seem to think FTB 's are entitled to a 3 bed house in readyness for child rearing whereas the rest of us took it one step at a time.

Why is it so difficult to understand suitability. You've highlighted a couple of houses, and said "they can live there". Well done. But misses so much.

If you can't see any problem, then you can't see any problem. That just means you are blind to it. It doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist. The report itself is about the problems.

if you are so confident that there are simply no problems, shall we put it to a vote?

Going4TheDream

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Why is it so difficult to understand suitability. You've highlighted a couple of houses, and said "they can live there". Well done. But misses so much.

If you can't see any problem, then you can't see any problem. That just means you are blind to it. It doesn't mean a problem doesn't exist. The report itself is about the problems.

if you are so confident that there are simply no problems, shall we put it to a vote?

High expectations and unwillingness to compromise = disapointment?

Realistic expectations and willingness to compromise = own home?

Graham_Devon

Going4TheDream wrote: »

High expectations and unwillingness to compromise = disapointment?

Realistic expectations and willingness to compromise = own home?

Please define high expectations. It seems any expectation is too high for some of the older generation.

I believe this appears to be turning into a boomer "Its good enough for you" argument.

Conrad had provided 3 or 4 houses in redruth.

Is it too high an expectation to suggest that the drive 50 miles to work and 50 miles back, to provide your family with a one bedroom "house" which has 3 rooms, isn't really suitable?

It seems whatever people state, it's back to "you expect too much".

Is it really too much to expect the average earner(s) to look towards a 2 bedroom home within 20 miles of work? Really?

Popping up a couple of cheap homes in Cornwall is great, but doesn't look at the issues. Last time conrad did this, he decided to post unmortgageable houses, to suggest they were affordable. The unmortgageable bit wasn't an issue and people should have got on with it.

I'm sure your expectations for yourself would be wildly different if you are completely honest. Infact, I'm wondering why I'm arguing, as this whoel "expectation" thing is just a flippant line pulled out everytime someone says theres an issue with house pricing.

Going4TheDream

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Please define high expectations. It seems any expectation is too high for some of the older generation.

I believe this appears to be turning into a boomer "Its good enough for you" argument.

Conrad had provided 3 or 4 houses in redruth.

Is it too high an expectation to suggest that the drive 50 miles to work and 50 miles back, to provide your family with a one bedroom "house" which has 3 rooms, isn't really suitable?

It seems whatever people state, it's back to "you expect too much".

Is it really too much to expect the average earner(s) to look towards a 2 bedroom home within 20 miles of work? Really?

Popping up a couple of cheap homes in Cornwall is great, but doesn't look at the issues. Last time conrad did this, he decided to post unmortgageable houses, to suggest they were affordable. The unmortgageable bit wasn't an issue and people should have got on with it.

I'm sure your expectations for yourself would be wildly different if you are completely honest. Infact, I'm wondering why I'm arguing, as this whoel "expectation" thing is just a flippant line pulled out everytime someone says theres an issue with house pricing.

Perhaps where you are based like in London there are a lot of factors that make it hard to find a suitable property. There will always be exceptions in any situation.

Your choice of home will be ultimately driven by affordability.

Perhaps it should be reasonable to expect a home within a 20 mile commute, but for many it isn't, and that is the reality in this day and age. Only you can weigh up what you are prepared to compromise on ie size of house, location, how far you wish to travel to work, local facilities etc in order to afford a house in your price bracket if you wish to own your own home

My first house aged 19 as a single mum was not the house I would have chosen as my 1st choice if I had more money, bit of a dodgy area, in poorish state of repair a small yard no garden no DG/CH etc but it was all I could afford, and I wasn't prepared to rent for any longer than I had to (I knew I wasnt going to be fortunate enough to marry a man of good fortune ) and I knew long term the only way for prices was up.

You have to also consider the future, is your income likely to increase reasonably in the next 3 or 4 years, will your wife/partner return to full time work if she is a SAHM (if applicable) therefore increasing the family income. Then you can think well ' perhaps its not the ideal house but prices are likely to rise so perhaps if I don't do it now I might never be able to' and it makes the compromises you make easier to swallow. You can then work towards getting another step up the ladder.

Don't think I don't empathize with the young today because I do, but buying your first home is only the start of the journey up the ladder to get to the home that you want to spend a lot of years in it is not the end and there will be some form of compromise or managing expectations along the way, it certainly was that way for me

btw I am only 47 so I am not the older generation...am I?

Graham_Devon

So you think a one bedroom home, which has no garden and 3 rooms, and no real employment prospects, unless you travel a good 40 miles each way each day, at 8x average income, is good value?

Or maybe not good value, but you don't think people should be entitled to suggest that could be problematic?

Graham_Devon

Infact, this has actually quite annoyed me. The purposeful ignorance has annoyed me, as it's another one of those "I'm alright Jack" scenarios, or feels like it, with people telling me I expect too much. So I have done some calculations, to see if people really ARE expecting to much and it's not actually a problem.

So, I have taken the cheap house Conrad pointed out, the one bed, 3 room house up for £110k. I have given the (lets say 28 year old) a 10% deposit, and the local average wage. I think this is more than fair, considering this 28 year old is buying the very lowest of the low end.

So, he takes home £14,262 a year after Tax.

Out of this you are expecting him to pay a mortgage of £645 a month.

Let's now look at the other items he will HAVE to pay for. Council tax at £82 per month, including discount for single occupancy.

Electric, water, £60 per month. (That's only £720 a year for BOTH).

He buys footwear and clothes, and only spends £200 a year on this. Remember he needs to work, so will need clothing.

So, this 28 year old has now paid his mortgage, his council tax and has kept water and electric flowing into his house. He wears clothes to avoid being locked up. I think it's reasonable to suggest these are very basic needs.

So, he now has £314 left.

He has no phone. No internet. No mobile phone. No TV. He doesn't eat. He doesn't own a car, or use any public transport. He doesn't drink any fluids apart from water. He has no insurance whatsoever. Absolutely no debts at all. Absolutely no commitments at all and never ever has one bit of entertainment. He never gets ill so doesn't ever need prescriptions, and has not one single person to ever buy a present for, ever. He has no furniture, no washing machine, no bed, just 4 walls.

And all he has to show for that is a one bed house he barely heats and water he drinks.

And that's based on interest rates staying as they are for the foreseeable future.

Now I'm at a bit of a loss. I know people are going to turn around and suggest that he should find a partner to buy with. But surely a one bed house, with just 3 rooms is aimed at a single occupancy!? Or are we now going to suggest the one bedroom home should only be achieveable for the average couple? If so, where does the single bloke actually go, or do, for shelter!? He's earning a "living" wage. The average wage.

So what is it, that I am expecting too much from? What can I cut out from the above calculations? Water? Is eating food AND having a one bed home while earning a living wage really to high an expectation?

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Infact, this has actually quite annoyed me. The purposeful ignorance has annoyed me, as it's another one of those "I'm alright Jack" scenarios, or feels like it, with people telling me I expect too much. So I have done some calculations, to see if people really ARE expecting to much and it's not actually a problem.

So, I have taken the cheap house Conrad pointed out, the one bed, 3 room house up for £110k. I have given the (lets say 28 year old) a 10% deposit, and the local average wage. I think this is more than fair, considering this 28 year old is buying the very lowest of the low end.

So, he takes home £14,262 a year after Tax.

Out of this you are expecting him to pay a mortgage of £645 a month.

Let's now look at the other items he will HAVE to pay for. Council tax at £82 per month, including discount for single occupancy.

Electric, water, £60 per month. (That's only £720 a year for BOTH).

He buys footwear and clothes, and only spends £200 a year on this. Remember he needs to work, so will need clothing.

So, this 28 year old has now paid his mortgage, his council tax and has kept water and electric flowing into his house. I think it's reasonable to suggest these are very basic needs.

So, he now has £314 left.

He has no phone. No internet. No mobile phone. No TV. He doesn't eat. He doesn't own a car, or use any public transport. He doesn't drink any fluids apart from water. He has no insurance whatsoever. Absolutely no debts at all. Absolutely no commitments at all and never ever has one bit of entertainment.

And all he has to show for that is a one bed house he barely heats and water he drinks.

And that's based on interest rates staying as they are for the foreseeable future.

Now I'm at a bit of a loss. I know people are going to turn around and suggest that he should find a partner to buy with. But surely a one bed house, with just 3 rooms is aimed at a single occupancy!? Or are we now going to suggest the one bedroom home should only be achieveable for the average couple? If so, where does the single bloke actually go, or do, for shelter!? He's earning a "living" wage. The average wage.

So what is it, that I am expecting too much from? What can I cut out from the above calculations? Water?

I agree with all of this. But if that's the market price then presumably someone who can afford it will buy it, so this dude can't. In the North West, where salaries are much the same, a one bed flat can be had for £50k as there isn't the same demand.

I know that isn't a 'solution' or anything, but isn't that just the way it is?