Alternatives to Royal Canin

dannymccann

Hi!

Little bit of background - Staffy/Jack Russel, roughly 8 years old, had diarrhea for the last 3 weeks now with no other symptoms (not lethargic, still wants to eat, drink, play etc), no diet change (although cant rule out a ingredient change) and no other 'issues' to mention. We have tried starving him, substituting some wet food with his normal biscuits, boiled chicken and rice and pretty much every thing else you can research on the internet before having to make the dreaded expensive trip to the vets.

Went to the vet last night as we came home from work to an explosive accident in the kitchen which now requires us to buy a new mop head :eek: They have prescribed him 21 days of 'Synbiotic D-C' from Protexin and given us a bag of Royal Canin SC21, as they think it might be a diet related because of not showing any other symptoms. We were positive that she warned us off blood tests and onto a dietary 'fix' (while also telling us we can get the food cheaper elsewhere, so no bias involved).

Now I dont have a problem with buying 'tailored' food for him, but we are used to his food costing about £7 a month and to buy enough of this SC21 stuff it jumps up to £50 a month...and looking at the ingredient list (quoted from the RC site below) there seems to be a lot of crap in there I'm fairly sure he could get from a more 'natural' food that probably works out cheaper as well.

COMPOSITION: tapioca, dehydrated duck meat, hydrolysed poultry proteins, vegetable fibres, animal fats, beet pulp, fish oil, soya oil, psyllium husks and seeds, minerals, fructo-oligo-saccharides, marigold extract (source of lutein). ADDITIVES (per kg): Nutritional additives: Vitamin A: 25000 IU, Vitamin D3: 800 IU, E1 (Iron): 41 mg, E2 (Iodine): 2.8 mg, E4 (Copper): 10 mg, E5 (Manganese): 54 mg, E6 (Zinc): 203 mg, E8 (Selenium): 0.1 mg - Preservatives - Antioxidants. ANALYTICAL CONSTITUENTS: Protein: 21% - Fat content: 9% - Crude ash: 7.2% - Crude fibres: 4.4% - Per kg: EPA/DHA: 3.5 g - Essential fatty acids: 28 g

So...any suggestions?!

Caroline_a

Personally I would stick with what the vet has prescribed at the moment. If you keep changing his food you will only continue to upset his tum, so I would wait until it's settled down before you start looking for cheaper options. What did you feed him on before?

shaun40400

hi
go to their web site and see if their is a voucher for 400g free pack
its their most of the time
small help but it all counts

krlyr

The problem with the Royal Canin food is that there's still a list of various ingredients - what if it's an intolerance to chicken/chicken fat? The ingredients state "animal fats" which allows them to use anything, and this could vary from batch to batch depending on availability at the time of manufacture. OK, it seems to be cutting out the majority of grains (wheat, rice, potato) in favour of tapioca but unless it's a specific hypoallergenic food (there's a process that can be done with food to stop an allergen triggering a reaction, like Hills z/d Ultra - but most "hypoallergenic" foods are just limited to ingredients that are less likely to cause a reaction in most (but not all) dogs), it could still trigger a reaction.
Personally, and it's not for everyone, I would consider a raw-based exclusion/elimination diet. The idea is you pick one protein - ideally a novel one, i.e. something the dog hasn't had before, be it lamb, fish, duck, turkey, rabbit etc. - and feed this on its own for several weeks. If the symptoms start to clear up, you can slowly add a new element one at a time. This could be another protein, or you could opt to add in a form of carbs, e.g. potato, rice, etc. Add one at a time and give it a week or two between each additions. If the symptoms flare up, you can pinpoint the culprit.

It is not going to be a long-term balanced diet but it won't harm a healthy dog in the short-term.
http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/2010/06/08/pinpointing-allergies/
http://communityvet.net/2010/03/diy-elimination-diet-for-the-dog-an-cat/

Once you find the trigger you can either slowly introduce dry food without the triggering ingredient to see how they suit him, or if you felt brave enough, you could go the whole hog and switch to a raw diet, balanced properly with offal and bones, fulltime (but as I said, I know it's not for everyone)

Meat can be sourced in supermarkets and it could be worth working out the cost of this vs the vet stuff. You can save even more money by scouring the reduced aisle or asking local butchers for offcuts - though, for the purpose of the elimination diet, you do want to avoid any "pet minces" or mixed offcuts the butcher may offer, as you could end up feeding a trigger by accident. There are even suppliers of raw meat specifically for dogs, which vary in price - from the bulk-suppliers like Landywoods, The Dogfood Company and DAF (minimum orders of usually around £20, so you may need a spare freezer) to places that make custom diets specifically for your dog (but are a bit pricey) like Natural Instinct and Darling's real food. Some of the bulk-suppliers do have stockists around the country who may be local enough to collect and may sell in smaller quantities though - if you look up Durham Animal Feeds, they list stockists on their website.
A raw-fed dog needs about 2-3% of its bodyweight in food each day. Tough to guess what your dog weighs given his cross, but say he weighed 10kg, he'd need about 200-300g of meat a day. It was costing me about £120 to raw-feed my two from the supermarket and that's a total weight of 75kg so for a 10-15kg dog it would be a lot less - less than £20 a month, probably. It's even cheaper to raw-feed them now I order from a bulk supplier, £40 a month, so you'd be paying a fraction of the price for a smaller dog.

Edit: I see in another post you're in Surrey. There's a DAF supplier in Slough that I'm meaning to check out soon, happy to let you know what range they stock if you're interested. Otherwise I know The Dogfood Company delivers to Surrey as I'm on his delivery route, though he only passes by about once a month and has only just delivered to me recently. PAH stock a range of raw food but some is mixed meats and veg so may not be best for an exclusion diet. Natural Instinct is based in Camberley and have a warehouse/shop that you can collect from, so could be worth getting a quote for them for their food - they do a "Pure" range which is as it says on the tin, just individual meats rather than any additives (they add herbs etc to some of their ranges).

http://www.daf-petfood.co.uk/wb/pages/distribution.php
http://www.naturalinstinct.com/


If you feel raw isn't the way for you, then I would suggest perhaps trying the Naturediet or Wainwrights (PAH's version of Naturediet) wet food, there's a low amount of ingredients so less likely to cause a reaction and I know many Staffies (and other breeds with sensitive tums) to have done well on it. Not the cheapest of foods but probably cheaper than the Royal Canin stuff, and PAH often do BOGOF or 3 for 2 on the Wainwrights stuff.

bugslet

I had (still have!) a dog that developed diarrohea. There didn't seem to be any particular reason for it and like you had tried him on just dry food, chicken and rice, with no change in the situation. This may not apply to yours at all, but before going down the route of blood tests, we put a DAP collar on him and I was genuinely amazed by the difference in him within 24 hours and two days later, everything was normal. Spent about 4 months wearing a DAP collar, they last about a month, and he's been fine since.

Might help yours, might not!

PS In case anyone doesn't know, DAP collars are impregnated with the hormones the mother dog gives out just after birth, it's supposed to calm dogs down.

rising_from_the_ashes

For a good quality, reasonably priced food, I wouldn't go past Skinners Duck & Rice http://www.skinnerspetfoods.co.uk/products/field---trial-products/duck---rice/

It's wheat & gluten free & hypoallergenic (ingredients: Whole rice (40%), duck meat meal (20%), naked oats, peas, whole linseed, sunflower oil, beet pulp, vitamins and minerals.)

Price is £23 / 15kg at the local pet shop (it's vat free which helps a bit with the cost) but recently got 2 x 15kg bags online for £36 which is a great price.


My dog's got various tummy problems & has done really well on this - he was on Wainwrights before but at £33.49 / 15 kg, it's a lot more expensive.


However, I'd speak to your vet before changing from a prescribed diet ..... hope things settle down for your wee one soon.

suki1964

TBH I would stick to the vets treatment plan for now and see if the wee fella stabilises before chopping and changing foods again. If the diet is vet prescribed as treatment you should be able to claim the cost from your insurance, if not at least so far it is only one months diet you are looking at paying out for

Dont forget the sudden change in diet can make things worse for a few days before getting better

chris_n_tj

My dog is on a Vet prescribed diet (has been for over 3 years) and no we cant claim it on our insurence (Pet Plan) so please be careful with this. I also think if you look at the feeding chart you will see it really wont cost as much per day as you think.

We pay £33 per 5kg bag and it lasts about 6 weeks. The other thing you can do is send emails to the top dogfood comapnies explain your situation and ask for samples. You will find most will be happy to help.

But if you have faith in your Vet then I would follow his/her lead on this. We use Royal Canin now, we did try Hills but it didnt suit. You could also (with Vets say so) try Nature Diet, this is a wet food which is good for delicate tummies.

Its upestting when your furbaby has a problem isnt it, but stick at it, it will take time to find the correct diet for him its all about trial and error. x

krlyr

While I am happy to listen to my vet's view on things, it's worth remembering that vets do very little in their course on nutrition, unless they have a personal interest and choose to study further on it. I think a few vets have said it's just one or two lectures - sponsored by, usually, Royal Canin or Hills! Before I took my vet's word as gospel I would want a thorough explanation on why they thought that particular food was the best course - is it a truly hypoallergenic food, have they researched into whether the ingredients are the least likely to trigger a reaction, or is it just what Royal Canin have told them is best for dogs with an upset stomach?

chris_n_tj

I guess it depends on your Vet. We are very lucky with ours. He doesnt go down the "I stock this so i will recomend it", and he will also tell you if you can buy cheaper else where.
As i said in my post its a matter of trial and error, it look us weeks to find a suitable food, and it happened to be Roayl Canin, (prescription only) That is why i also said it would be a good idea to ask suppliers for samples. If you ask they will send enough for a good few days and not jsut a little bag which wouldnt be enough.

Stick at it OP its hard going at times but there is light at the end of the tunnel. x

OnAndUp

Personally I don't buy into "Prescription Diets".

Are they really any better / different to a good quality standard dog food? I also agree that generally vets are not that clued up on canine nutrition so even if they are recommending them it might be in a genuine but mis-guided (because of the marketing and training they get from Hills / RC ref Prescription foods) way that they think they are going to make a big difference. So really they are just ripping off us caring owners into spending more on way overpriced food!

In some cases like a diagnosed specific illness / allergy Maybe? they are best but as the OP as said they don't really know what is wrong with the dog so it's just a case of trial and error.

dannymccann wrote: »

They have prescribed him 21 days of 'Synbiotic D-C' from Protexin and given us a bag of Royal Canin SC21, as they think it might be a diet related because of not showing any other symptoms. We were positive that she warned us off blood tests and onto a dietary 'fix' (while also telling us we can get the food cheaper elsewhere, so no bias involved).

I feed Burns to my dog they don't do prescription diets here is John Burns who created the food and is also a vet's take on it:

Are you feeding a Veterinary or Prescription Diet™?

If you are feeding a Veterinary or Prescription Diet™, you probably believe that you are buying a medicine for the treatment or prevention of a disease of your pet. If you do, you are mistaken. Although Veterinary and Prescription Diets™ are sold exclusively through veterinary practices they are not medicines and there are no legal restrictions on their sale.

FWIW I totally agree with this!

If you click on this link: http://burnspet.co.uk/petcare/alternatives-to-veterinary-and-prescription-diets.html

It recommends which Burns food to feed based on Hills & RC prescription foods.

Although Burns seems expensive initially as it's good quality the feeding guide is really low so eg. a 20kg dog would get about 200g a day so a 15kg bag costing approx £45 would last 75 days so about 10-11 weeks about £4.30 a week.

I buy the Canine Alert Lamb or Chicken as it's VAT free so cheaper still!
http://burnspet.co.uk/products/burns-for-dogs/alert-chicken-brown-rice-dog-food-for-assistance-dogs.html

Nutritionally inc Protein levels and ingredients etc. they are nearly the same as the normal Burns Chicken & Lamb & Rice.