Advance Train Tickets Validity Query

patwa_2

Hello,

I was wondering if someone could possibly please spare a few moments to assist me with the following.

My friend who is completely blind has asked me to assist her by booking train tickets for a journey she plans to take in January.

My friend will be travelling from Edinburgh to Derby and back, and we are naturally trying to keep the total price as low as possible.

I have been able to find advanced tickets for the journey for four £41 return. However, I have also found return tickets to Birmingham for £35 return. The train to Birmingham is the same service as above ankles at Derby (i.e. departs at the same time and calls at the same stations to Derby and then on to Birmingham).

My understanding is Advance tickets can only be used on the specific service for which they are booked. However, given that Birmingham is further than Derby, and that you are still paying for the distance you would be travelling even though the tickets are cheaper if going to Derby, would the cheaper tickets still be valid for the journey my friend plans to take? Technically the two tickets are identical, only one is travelling further than the distance the passenger will actually be on the train.

I would be grateful if someone could clarify this for me, as I don't want to book the tickets and then find my friend has trouble on the train and would possibly have to purchase a replacement ticket.

Thank you as always for your time, all the best for now and take care.

Hussein.

Please note: this message was dictated using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. I apologise for any errors in the text.

Humphrey10

From the terms and conditions of Advance Tickets:
"Break of journey:
You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."
So with an Advance ticket, you must travel all the way to the destination on the ticket.
And Derby has ticket barriers, so you will be caught, and may be fined.

Your friend is eligible for a Disabled Person's Railcard (which would give 1/3 off tickets for her and 1 other adult), but even if she does not have one she can still get 1/3 off Anytime tickets as long as she is travelling with someone else: http://www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk/travelling-by-rail/other-concessionary-discounts

patwa_2

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my query. I appreciate your explanation and for pasting in the precise T&Cs for the advance tickets. This is definitely helpful and will avoid me making a costly error. My friend already has a DP Railcard so this certainly helps a lot.

Thanks again for your time.

All the best for now and take care.

Have a pleasant day,

Hussein.

Sent from my iPad.

yorkie2

patwa wrote: »

My friend will be travelling from Edinburgh to Derby and back, and we are naturally trying to keep the total price as low as possible.

XC have a bit of a 'monopoly' on this route, though you can get around this by "splitting" the journey into a combination of tickets.

patwa wrote: »

I have been able to find advanced tickets for the journey for four £41 return. However, I have also found return tickets to Birmingham for £35 return. The train to Birmingham is the same service as above ankles at Derby (i.e. departs at the same time and calls at the same stations to Derby and then on to Birmingham).

Yes, XC and Virgin are in competition between Edinburgh and Birmingham; they take different routes (WCML vs ECML)

patwa wrote: »

My understanding is Advance tickets can only be used on the specific service for which they are booked.

That is one of the terms, yes.

patwa wrote: »

However, given that Birmingham is further than Derby, and that you are still paying for the distance

You do not pay for distance.

patwa wrote: »

you would be travelling even though the tickets are cheaper if going to Derby, would the cheaper tickets still be valid for the journey my friend plans to take? Technically the two tickets are identical, only one is travelling further than the distance the passenger will actually be on the train.

Alighting at Derby counts as a "break of journey", this is permitted generally except where it is explicitly prohibited. Bad news: Advance tickets prohibit it.

patwa wrote: »

I would be grateful if someone could clarify this for me, as I don't want to book the tickets and then find my friend has trouble on the train and would possibly have to purchase a replacement ticket.

They should be excessed to the cheapest ticket valid for break of journey, unfortunately this costs £104.00. Some staff believe an admin fee of £10 applies on top (though I would disagree). Some may claim the £104 ticket needs to be purchased on top of the £35 paid (again, I'd disagree).

yorkie2

Humphrey10 wrote: »

From the terms and conditions of Advance Tickets:
"Break of journey:
You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."
So with an Advance ticket, you must travel all the way to the destination on the ticket.

Yes, that is correct.

Humphrey10 wrote: »

And Derby has ticket barriers, so you will be caught, and may be fined.

A fine is very unlikely. I very much doubt that XC/EMT would prosecute for this.

The only realistic prospect of a fine would be if a charge was made (this would initially be a civil debt) and the customer refused to pay. In this unlikely scenario, if the TOC was able to gather evidence that the passenger intended to deprive the company of £6 revenue then they could prosecute under the 1889 Regulation of Railways Act, but it would usually be possible to settle out of court, but the resulting criminal record would be far more serious (for most people) than the fine. This is, however, an extremely unlikely scenario. I am not aware of anyone ever being prosecuted in such circumstances, and cases where people have been excessed or charged for a new ticket for finishing short are extremely rare (and, where they do occur, are often withdrawn by the TOC).

The further complication is that it would be EMT who would be the ones making the decision on whether to allow the customer to exit, or to charge the customer, but the journey is on XC. I am aware of cases where EMT have pursued customers of other TOCs though (which really is utterly absurd).