BBC Thursday: The Future State of Welfare

dtsazza

ILW wrote: »

Or of your kids do not pay taxes, should you get a state pension?

Or - should you get a state pension at all?

My view is that ideally there wouldn't be such a thing - people should fund their retirement years from money put aside during their earning years. Asides from the (incredibly awkward) transitionary issues, this should be broadly net neutral - you pay less tax/NI while working, which supplements your pension arrangements in retirement. Ceteris paribus (i.e. removing any invisible subsidies) putting the same amount of money aside would yield the same amount privately as the state pension would give - except the money is in your own name and under your control at all times, rather than leaving you dependent on income from future taxpayers.

I consider this much better because it puts the individual back in control of the consequences of their lifestyle, and saving towards retirement. Others may think it worse for the same reason.

chewmylegoff

whilst it may seem unpalletable to working people without children that working people with children should get tax breaks, surely that must be more palletable to anyone who is not a member of the "underclass" than a system which appears to reward people who have children and who don't work.

zagfles

dtsazza wrote: »

Or - should you get a state pension at all?

My view is that ideally there wouldn't be such a thing - people should fund their retirement years from money put aside during their earning years. Asides from the (incredibly awkward) transitionary issues, this should be broadly net neutral - you pay less tax/NI while working, which supplements your pension arrangements in retirement. Ceteris paribus (i.e. removing any invisible subsidies) putting the same amount of money aside would yield the same amount privately as the state pension would give - except the money is in your own name and under your control at all times, rather than leaving you dependent on income from future taxpayers.

I consider this much better because it puts the individual back in control of the consequences of their lifestyle, and saving towards retirement. Others may think it worse for the same reason.

Maybe also, people should pay back the subsidy they recieved as a child, ie education costs, child benefit etc. If you want to remove cross-generational subsidy.

Niksan

Did anyone ever watch that Hairy Bikers meals on wheels where there was a young chap on benefits who pro-actively volunteered his time which was helping him learn a trade and generally gained confidence around people? That's the mentality lacking I think, and calling minimum wage - minimum wage is a bit of a taboo as well.

I suppose as I've not been privy to the do nowt lifestyle, I find if I'm off work ill I go nuts and can't comprehend how people can make a lifestyle choice out of it, I've been out of work and had to claim dole for about 7 weeks and it was one of the most depressing times of my life, I never want to go back there. Even though before and after I was paying a 3rd of my wage in tax and NI contibutions it felt wrong having to claim if that makes any sort of sense, I guess my parents pay your way mentality has caused that.

dtsazza

zagfles wrote: »

Maybe also, people should pay back the subsidy they recieved as a child, ie education costs, child benefit etc. If you want to remove cross-generational subsidy.

Absolutely. We're going that way with tuition fees, at least.

Jimmy_31

zagfles wrote: »

The difference is of course that in 30 years time it's not dogs who are going to be paying the taxes to support our ageing population.

It's going to the be mainly the children of today and the children yet to be born.

I doubt the hypocrites who object to supporting other peoples' childrens today will object in a generation's time when the roles are reversed and those "children" are paying the taxes to pay their state pension and their healthcare etc.

The parents of today on my estate and the estates i work on are mostly scum.

Sadly their children have turned out to be mostly scum.

Scum dont contribute anything.

You are correct on me not wanting to support scumbags children. I would gladly help support scumbags children if they were taken from the scumbag parents at birth and given to a decent hardworking family.

Unwanted child birth rates would plummet if the free money stopped, I wonder how much that would save the taxpayer, we could put what we save into the pension pot and cut out the middle man.

Going4TheDream

The_White_Horse wrote: »

if you have no kids, should you get a state pension paid for by your contemporaries kids?

Depends if the parents are going to pay for their kids education in full and not expect part of my council tax to subsidise it...........

zagfles

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Depends if the parents are going to pay for their kids education in full and not expect part of my council tax to subsidise it...........

Who paid for your education then?

Going4TheDream

zagfles wrote: »

Who paid for your education then?

My parents, and my Ni/taxes now pay towards my mothers pension

and your point was?

John_Pierpoint

"There is no such thing as society" -- Margaret Thatcher ?