BBC Thursday: The Future State of Welfare

Road_Hog

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

But the truth is, it was cheaper.

I would really love to support local, but even non-Eu stuff which has travelled across the world is cheaper.

Can anyone tell me how they manage that, please?

I can't be 100% sure why NZ butter is cheaper, but I would suggest it is because they have a lot of prime grazing land, which is cheap in comparison to the UK, their regulation and taxes are lower and probably their meat and dairy industry is subsidised. It took a battering when the UK joined the EU and got shut out of its largest market.

Jennifer_Jane

Road_Hog wrote: »

I can't be 100% sure why NZ butter is cheaper, but I would suggest it is because they have a lot of prime grazing land, which is cheap in comparison to the UK, their regulation and taxes are lower and probably their meat and dairy industry is subsidised. It took a battering when the UK joined the EU and got shut out of its largest market.

Yes, we certainly sold the Commonwealth down the river when we aligned with Europe and only 30 years after they'd come to our aid during the War.

John_Pierpoint

By the way it was established about 200 years ago that the price of land is high when the price of food is high NOT vice versa.

Famously New Zealand realised it could not afford subsidies any more about 20 years ago. And yes lots of small farmers went bust or had to swap to something else like growing fruit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6TmIYsM0i0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJS7YLhIaTo&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz_rMvIPEDI&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKtqTYSOBCg&NR=1&feature=fvwp

ILW

Is it true that the CAP is primarily there to keep very inefficient small French farmers going in the way of life they like?

StevieJ

Caveat_Mortgagor wrote: »

So who loses out? The wealthy lose out because no one sweeps their street or empties their bin; they cant buy a starbucks because the shop is unmanned and they cant nip into any local supermarkets or retail establishments. The pub has shut etc etc. Oh, and landlords lose out because they have empty properties.

This just wouldnt be allowed to continue. Rents would fall to attract tenants and the wage for low paid jobs would increase; eventually we find a happy medium that doesnt need a fortune throwing at it from the public purse.

I must say I struggle to consider the housing benefit cuts as austerity measures, because before this kicked off I never, in my wildest dreams believed that some average Jose from Equador could be living in a property in Islington subsidised by the taxpayer to the tune of 2k a month. Mind you if I had, I may have taken a sabbatical and moved to Park Lane or Chelsea for a break myself

chewmylegoff

heathcote123 wrote: »

That is completley unfair. ME suffererers are very up and down, and quite often it kicks in during stressful times - like signing on on a Thursday morning.

hence my second paragraph. not that i claim to understand the condition, but it seems rather unlikely to me that someone who has ME (or in fact most long term illnesses or disabilities) is incapable of doing any sort of work, ever, in any circumstances.

i agree with what was said about "therapeutic work" above - it should be possible to do a few hours a week without losing benefits. would have thought that it would actually be better for the sufferer to do be doing something that they thought was a useful contribution to something, even if it just boils down to a token effort in the eyes of others.

John_Pierpoint

ILW wrote: »

Is it true that the CAP is primarily there to keep very inefficient small French farmers going in the way of life they like?

That was the original idea,after all it is one man per vote and it is great fun when they come into town and empty trailers of rotting vegetables in the middle of the level crossing.

While we in the UK nearly starved, so did bombed out Germany, the French peasants, having opted out this time round, beavered away growing food. In 1951 if you wanted to escape the Festival of Britain and eat good food you had to go to Ireland or France.
So by the 1970's a grateful Germany was paying France £500 million a year in agricultural subsidies. Then we joined and started paying over 1 - 2% of our sales tax known as VAT and the blank cheque had been signed.

Needless to say, big business has now taken over to farm the subsidies that are paid for simply owning the land and spraying the weeds - as the food mountains were getting out of hand.

Here are our top 5 peasant farmers:
TATE & LYLE EUROPE (031583) €827,979,239
NESTLE UK LTD 804817 €196,777,997
MEADOW FOODS LTD €129,279,959
Czarnikow Group Limited €129,104,665
PHILPOT DAIRY PRODUCTS LTD €88,307,975

and the French ones

SAINT LOUIS SUCRE S.A. €196,464,108
TEREOS €177,711,982
DOUX €119,202,517
BANQUES CREDIT AGRICOLE €91,177,869
CRISTAL UNION SCA €57,519,972

Isn't this thread meant to be about the f e c k l e s s at the bottom of the heap not the snouts in the trough at the top?

Just when the falling prices were starting to make sense for me to farm the solar electricity subsidies; it looks like the subsidy is running out on Monday.

John_Pierpoint

chewmylegoff wrote: »

hence my second paragraph. not that i claim to understand the condition, but it seems rather unlikely to me that someone who has ME (or in fact most long term illnesses or disabilities) is incapable of doing any sort of work, ever, in any circumstances.

i agree with what was said about "therapeutic work" above - it should be possible to do a few hours a week without losing benefits. would have thought that it would actually be better for the sufferer to do be doing something that they thought was a useful contribution to something, even if it just boils down to a token effort in the eyes of others.

I'm not an expert, but I thought that claimants refuse to do more than 16 hours per week [plus a Sunday boot sale] because the rules say they have to sign off after 16 hours work.

There was a "celebrity" programmer where they were dumped in a tower block with a week's benefit money and told to get on with it.
There was one very bright young woman (a footballer's ex ?) who had picked up casual work in no time but failed to realise she had broken the 16 hour rule.

Graham_Devon

Colleagues daughter had a back to work interview not too long back. She wants to work, but as a single parent it's obviously immensly difficult.

The interview itself, apparently, was hardly anything to do with getting back to work. Rather, it was more about the benefits she could get if she only worked a certain amount of hours. However, there was no job that actually matches the criteria, therefore, she doesn't go back to work.

Basically, from what I heard, it revolved around how much you can get for childcare, how much you can get in Housing Benefit, how much you can get in tax credits, even though you pay no tax. Secondary to all of that was working. Any job she could do simply would not pay anywhere near what she currently gets when you consider housing benefit, therefore she is reduced to dependancy on the welfare system, and hoping a job will revolve around said benefits system. Of course, jobs don't. Especially when you factor in the fact that it's not only got to revolved around the benefits system for her to continue living, but also needs to be child friendly hours. Even if she could find all of that, she'd be very slightly worse off for all her efforts.

She (and her mother) found it demorilising. But then employers are leaning heavily on the benefits system too, in order to continue paying low wages.

The cost of living far outweighs what you can make working for many many people. It's only the benefits system which allows the cost of living (the majority of which being housing) to keep on increasing.

I'm not sure if the government want an increasing section of the population to be dependant on them and stuck, or not. Can't make up my mind on that one.

All seems a bit stupid really. I believe we've got to the tipping point where those paying tax can no longer support this system. But it's going to take a brave government....sorry, should rephrase that, it's going to take a government to commit suicide for decades to actually change it.

Going4TheDream

You know you have hit rock bottom as a country when someone can brazenly state that on national TV that they will not work 40 hrs and miss their kids growing up for an extra £30 a week and choosing a life on benefits and know nothing will likely happen to them.

It will be interesting to see how the Middlesbrough Job centre handle it as I am sure it has not gone unnoticed somewhere by the powers that be and I wonder if he has ultimately 'shot' himself in the foot and singled himself out?