Smoke test in chimney flue? Am I being ripped off?

motherof6

Hi there, hopefully someone may be able to help. 6 weeks ago we ordered a new woodburner stove with an italian slate hearth and all the relevent works to go with it in removing the old woodburner, laying the slate and then installing the new woodburner. Total cost for this was £2200. When we received the quote a 'surveyor' came round and checked our chimney telling us we had a concrete flue which was good news and it wouldnt need to be relined. We had previously had a much higher quote from another company who had also told us this. He then went away sorted out our quote and posted it out to us. They asked for a 10% deposit to confirm the order so we sent back the paperwork and a cheque for £220.
Today we had the builder out who works for the company to remove the existing stove, sweep the chimney, lay the slate and the new woodburner would go in on wednesday with all boxing in making good etc to be completed on friday.
Within moments of being here we had the builder sucking air through his teeth saying ''dont know how you lot havent killed yourselves with that chimney''. He then removed the existing stove, soot and mess going everywhere, cigarette hanging from his lips, tutting all the time. He then went up onto the roof where he tied a bag over the top of the chimney pot and then performed a smoke test by placing a smoke bomb up the flue. He then claimed smoke was billowing out from the tiles and also filling the roof space and condemned the chimney saying it was dangerous. He told me he wouldnt want to read in the obiturarys that my kids were dead in their beds and that he would have to line the flue at an extra cost of £1400 + vat.
I told him that smoke was not billowing out from the tiles and I went up into the roof space...... no smoke.
Having read briefly on line it appears smoke tests should be done with the chimney unblocked and if the smoke comes out of the chimney thats fine. Am I right with this?
They have now left me in an awful mess, with no stove and unless I pay an extra £1400+ vat they refuse to fit the new one. I rang the company and spoke to the original 'surveyor' who cam round who said that his 'survey' could not guarentee no extra work would need doing and that it is only when the builder comes in to remove the old stove that a smoke test is performed. I can only say the builder who was here could only be described as a real cowboy, but if I am wrong then so be it but does anyone have any experience of chimneys or been in this situation? And is it normal for a smoke test to be carried out with a bag over the chimney because from what I have googled this doesnt seem the case.
Thankyou

unluckychappie

The only experience I have with a smoke test, performed by the chimney sweep when we first bought the house, was to ensure ther was sufficient updraft for an open fire. I suspect the same is necessary for a wood burner. The smoke partly went up the chimney but mostly into the room and a rotating fan, cannot remember the proper term, was fitted for £200. (Nothing electrically powered, it just rotates and draws the smoke) Problem solved. The test was undertaken with the chimney unblocked and the CW present in the room at all times. It sounds your builder may be pulling a fast one.

Tom_Jones

Call a chimney sweep for a second unbiased opinion, and smoke tests are done with the chimney unblocked.

safesound

With an unlined chimney there are two types of smoke tests and I think you are getting them confused; one is a smoke pressure test to check whether the chimney is leaking through the mortar/stonework (closed chimney) and the other is a smoke draw test to check the smoke is going up the chimney and not being pulled into the living room (open chimney).
Now as to whether you need a liner, that's very much personal opinion. I am of a mind that so long as its a working chimney (ie, its been used regularly without incident) then there's no reason why it would suddenly become dangerous just because you are changing the stove. However you would be silly not to install carbon monoxide detectors into all the rooms on the chimney run just to be safe.
If you feel that the company is trying to pull a fast one call out another and see what they say (of course offering them the business of fitting the stove as an incentive to tell you the truth)

Barneysmom

That sounds wrong to me.
If he'd covered the chimney top where did he expect the smoke to go but back down into the house.

When our gas man (British Gas) did ours he never covered the chimney.

motherof6

Thankyou very much, what is worse is that after doing this (and we have used the old woodburner for the last 9 years, with the chimney being swept every year with no problems at all), the builder told us that all the existing concrete liner and joints would need to be removed and this would involve knocking a hole in our bedroom wall to get into the chimney stack and also our brand new bathroom which has only been put in and tiled in the last week! I will call a chimney sweep tomorrow and get a second opinion, will let you know the outcome.... thankyou again!

muskoka

I had my chimney swept (since last Dec) and I used a Company from NACS- Association of Chimney Sweeps - http://www.chimneyworks.co.uk/

Didn;t cost much. Forgot how much though BUT they did a smoke test AND provided an official certificate to say exactly what they had done AND that the chimney/draw was fine. Good luck

Think maybe it cost me between £50 - £80 cant really remember sorry. Money well spent though. You could contact one of these co's explain situation & say if you had chimney swept & they ok it, I would think the certificate they provide would suffice?

Canucklehead

safesound wrote: »

With an unlined chimney there are two types of smoke tests and I think you are getting them confused; one is a smoke pressure test to check whether the chimney is leaking through the mortar/stonework (closed chimney) and the other is a smoke draw test to check the smoke is going up the chimney and not being pulled into the living room (open chimney).
Now as to whether you need a liner, that's very much personal opinion. I am of a mind that so long as its a working chimney (ie, its been used regularly without incident) then there's no reason why it would suddenly become dangerous just because you are changing the stove. However you would be silly not to install carbon monoxide detectors into all the rooms on the chimney run just to be safe.
If you feel that the company is trying to pull a fast one call out another and see what they say (of course offering them the business of fitting the stove as an incentive to tell you the truth)

Probably the most factual post so far.

Except that if the chimney failed the closed test it would need lining.

A smoke test is repeated after installation to prove flue flow.

A CO alarm is mandatory not just a 'good idea'

I would advise you to have the test repeated by someone else (if you don't trust the builder). They should calmly show you what's going on and point out any smoke escaping where it shouldn't be.
The builder seems to have limited people skills.

Smoke testing gas flues is a different kettle of lobsters and should not be compared to solid fuel in any way.


GSR.