Revoked redundancy... again and again....**Update**

Tygermoth

Sorry for the pause between the last post and this...... I have terrible dyslexia so have to type it up outside of MSE spell check it and then paste it back in or otherwise you would make no sense of my response at all.

[FONT=&quot]Firstly - the last day of the month i was to work for the new branch is this friday

SarEl [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- [/FONT]Very least your acceptance of this situation suggests that you have in law accepted the post as a potentially suitable alternative employment

I only accepted the role as I was promised in writing that this would only be an ‘extension’ of my redundancy and after the four weeks I would revert back to being redundant. At the time I was of the assumption (more fool me) that I would get paid my same salary. At NO TIME was it put forward it was a suitable alternate or considered anything but a month long assistance to an ailing branch.

[FONT=&quot]SarEl[/FONT] - If you do not refuse the job during that period then you have accepted it as a suitable alternative and your right to redundancy money goes out of the window.

I will refuse, in writing tomorrow. Though HR has advised me again today that they can keep me to the end of November and it will not affect my redundancy. That being said I am not sure how they reached this convenient conclusion and your comments have put the fear into me.

GM4L - What notice do the company have to give you? None I am already redundant.

GM4L - Were they going to pay pilon? Yes

fred7777 - Finally what sort of process and consultation did you have? There are legal steps they have to go through and it sounds like they didn't. This which could be in your favour at a tribunal.

I thought at the time it was a fair and fully compliant process. In fact it seemed smooth until the last day when the revocation and role at the other branch came about.

We were provided with a lawyer (independent) and he advised the settlement and CA was fair. There were a few sticking points but they were due to being called back to the business to help out on a legal case.

SarEl - they have obviously worked out that you haven't a clue and have exploited that to put you in a position that you shouldn't ever have been in.

Totally fair comment. I am a trusting and somewhat naive person and assume that as I have the best interests of people at heart they will look out for me the same. How does the old saying go, never a good deed goes unpunished.

I will review counter-notice immediately and hope if I have further questions you would not mind answering.

Thank you all for your time. I really, really appreciate it more than I can say.

SarEl

Tygermoth wrote: »

Sorry for the pause between the last post and this...... I have terrible dyslexia so have to type it up outside of MSE spell check it and then paste it back in or otherwise you would make no sense of my response at all. I have no such excuse - I simply think faster than my fingers work!

[FONT=&quot]Firstly - the last day of the month i was to work for the new branch is this friday Act now! But be clear I am not talking "months" - the trial period is four weeks, and they are different things![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]SarEl [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- [/FONT]Very least your acceptance of this situation suggests that you have in law accepted the post as a potentially suitable alternative employment

I only accepted the role as I was promised in writing that this would only be an ‘extension’ of my redundancy and after the four weeks I would revert back to being redundant. At the time I was of the assumption (more fool me) that I would get paid my same salary. At NO TIME was it put forward it was a suitable alternate or considered anything but a month long assistance to an ailing branch. Yes but remember what I said - ignorance of the law is no defence. They have been taking the !!!!. If they didn't know this they should have.

[FONT=&quot]SarEl[/FONT] - If you do not refuse the job during that period then you have accepted it as a suitable alternative and your right to redundancy money goes out of the window.

I will refuse, in writing tomorrow. Though HR has advised me again today that they can keep me to the end of November and it will not affect my redundancy. That being said I am not sure how they reached this convenient conclusion and your comments have put the fear into me. I wish them luck with that argument - you had already served your notice and they cannot make you serve it again.

GM4L - What notice do the company have to give you? None I am already redundant.

GM4L - Were they going to pay pilon? Yes Is this in writing?
But I am confused - you said they revoked the redundancy "at the last minute" - are you not in your notice period because ebverything else suggested that you were in your notice period already. If they haven't served you notice the this is a whole different ball game and an even more complicated one - you cannot serve counter notice unless you are in your statutory notice period.
fred7777 - Finally what sort of process and consultation did you have? There are legal steps they have to go through and it sounds like they didn't. This which could be in your favour at a tribunal.

I thought at the time it was a fair and fully compliant process. In fact it seemed smooth until the last day when the revocation and role at the other branch came about.

We were provided with a lawyer (independent) and he advised the settlement and CA was fair. There were a few sticking points but they were due to being called back to the business to help out on a legal case. Ermm - what CA!!!! Have you signed a compromise agreement - because if you have you have probably signed away every right you may have had!

SarEl - they have obviously worked out that you haven't a clue and have exploited that to put you in a position that you shouldn't ever have been in.

Totally fair comment. I am a trusting and somewhat naive person and assume that as I have the best interests of people at heart they will look out for me the same. How does the old saying go, never a good deed goes unpunished. Oh I fear that may be more true than ever now.

I will review counter-notice immediately and hope if I have further questions you would not mind answering.

Thank you all for your time. I really, really appreciate it more than I can say.

This just got a whole lot more complicated. I think you need to go back to your solicitor urgently as in camp on his/her doorstep first thing tomorrow. If you are not actually in your notice period, and if you have a CA then you must take urgent legal advice on this matter.

Tygermoth

Good morning everyone.


Thank you for coming back to me SarEl.


I started work in the new branch on the 3rd of October (corrected thank you GM4L). When would the 4weeks complete? (please note one of my disabilities makes it very hard to deal with numbers and dates)


Were they going to pay pilon? Yes Is this in writing?
But I am confused - you said they revoked the redundancy "at the last minute" - are you not in your notice period because everything else suggested that you were in your notice period already. If they haven't served you notice this is a whole different ball game and an even more complicated one - you cannot serve counter notice unless you are in your statutory notice period.


Pilon is noted on my CA. With its value . Does this alter the matter? I have not signed the CA, it was prepped for signature for the last day but as it was revoked it was never handed in. We were advised our last day was the last working day in September. Everyone else handed in keys, cards and their CA and left the building. Does this mean my notice was or was not worked? Had I not been moved to another branch my redundancy would have become ‘live’ on the last day in September.


To reiterate I will advise of counter notice today and my confirmation that I will not extend my assistance to the branch beyond the last day of the fourth week. I trust that putting in writing my stance will do no harm and clearly lay my intention to leave with my full redundancy intact. (Just in case anyone was wondering, no it’s not a huge amount, by most people’s reckoning a trifling sum. Regardless though it will ease a burden should it come through)


My CA will be signed on the last day and I will leave. Thank you for advising that I have served my notice now I am confident of this I can make sure I am not persuaded that I ‘owe’ them a month.


This just got a whole lot more complicated. I think you need to go back to your solicitor urgently as in camp on his/her doorstep first thing tomorrow. If you are not actually in your notice period, and if you have a CA then you must take urgent legal advice on this matter.

I have called him but other than advising the revocation was legal I have little input. Though to be fair to the gentleman in question he was there only to deal with the CA and as I was under the assumption that all was in order so i asked him no hard questions.

Oh, and I am a Ms.


Thank you!

Mrs_Optimist

Tygermoth please keep us updated, I was concerned for you - at least you are getting some good legal advice from SarEl, she really kows her stuff and helped me out when my DH was made redundant.

getmore4less

OK I asume you mean 3rd Oct not 3rd Nov.

That makes the 4 weeks the end of this week actually the sunday.

Now it seems to me you were never put on notice.

The plan seems to have been terminate without notice and give PILON.

What has happend is they have just given you a new job in a new location with less pay and said thats it.

So not sure if you can counter notice now since you have never been on notice.
Did you ever get a notice of termination?

I think you do need to reject the job as not a suitable alternative.

Tygermoth

Wow, talk about cat & pigeons !

Will update later as at work and i seem to have ruffled feathers.

(thanks GM4L for the date pointer)

getmore4less

Tygermoth wrote: »

Wow, talk about cat & pigeons !

Will update later as at work and i seem to have ruffled feathers.

(thanks GM4L for the date pointer)

good luck.

I think you have to be ready for what they do next,
might be a good idea not to commit to anything and say you need to take further advice.

One option they have is to try to make the job a suitable one by increasing the pay.

Are there other reason it might not be suitable like location,commute hours etc.

SarEl

Tygermoth wrote: »

Good morning everyone.


Thank you for coming back to me SarEl.


I started work in the new branch on the 3rd of October (corrected thank you GM4L). When would the 4weeks complete? (please note one of my disabilities makes it very hard to deal with numbers and dates)


Were they going to pay pilon? Yes Is this in writing?
But I am confused - you said they revoked the redundancy "at the last minute" - are you not in your notice period because everything else suggested that you were in your notice period already. If they haven't served you notice this is a whole different ball game and an even more complicated one - you cannot serve counter notice unless you are in your statutory notice period.


Pilon is noted on my CA. With its value . Does this alter the matter? I have not signed the CA, it was prepped for signature for the last day but as it was revoked it was never handed in. We were advised our last day was the last working day in September. Everyone else handed in keys, cards and their CA and left the building. Does this mean my notice was or was not worked? Had I not been moved to another branch my redundancy would have become ‘live’ on the last day in September.


To reiterate I will advise of counter notice today and my confirmation that I will not extend my assistance to the branch beyond the last day of the fourth week. I trust that putting in writing my stance will do no harm and clearly lay my intention to leave with my full redundancy intact. (Just in case anyone was wondering, no it’s not a huge amount, by most people’s reckoning a trifling sum. Regardless though it will ease a burden should it come through)


My CA will be signed on the last day and I will leave. Thank you for advising that I have served my notice now I am confident of this I can make sure I am not persuaded that I ‘owe’ them a month.


This just got a whole lot more complicated. I think you need to go back to your solicitor urgently as in camp on his/her doorstep first thing tomorrow. If you are not actually in your notice period, and if you have a CA then you must take urgent legal advice on this matter.

I have called him but other than advising the revocation was legal I have little input. Though to be fair to the gentleman in question he was there only to deal with the CA and as I was under the assumption that all was in order so i asked him no hard questions.

Oh, and I am a Ms.


Thank you!

This is very, very, very bad. You cannot put in counter-notice - you have never been given notice in the first place. The CA is not signed - so there is no agreement to anything. You can certainly tell your employer that you reject this job as a suitable alternative - but then they are quite correct that since notice has never been served on you you must serve your notice if they require it. The CA isn't signed - it has no legal weight until it is, so they simply don't have to abide by it.

Tygermoth

(I have not agreed to ANYTHING noted below as of yet)

Well fired off an email this morning voicing my conserns and have just come out of a meeting where HR have reassured me that I can leave up to the 22 Nov without any loss to my redundancy (why the 22 Nov? I hear you say… my new job start date has potentialy been put back to allow for a single training group - freeing up a trainer meaning I get one to one assistance)

They have put in writing as below

Further to our meeting today we have agreed to review your continued employment on a weekly basis but on 22 November, in the absence of any other arrangement, I will re-date the compromise agreement 25 November 2011 and your employment will terminate on that date. Just to clarify as well that the payment under the compromise agreement will not be paid to you if your employment should terminate for any reason other than that agreed between us.

I forwarded this to my Solistor who said

What you have arranged is fine

They all seemed to think I was causing a stir. but at least they have now agreed I can leave to my other job but have allowed the flexability to work longer.

Or are they blowing smoke up my…..

getmore4less

You now have notice in writing BUT depending on how long you have been there you may not be in statutory notice period where

How long have you worked there.

What have they said about this not being a suitable alternative, have they agreed to pay you your old rate?

how enhanced is the CA package,

normal redundancy package would be
1 week per year service capped at £400
PILON for any unused notice(what is the contractual notice the company needs to give you?)
payment for any accruued but unused holidays.


I think there is still a risk they could withdraw this again but at least now you will have a window to issue counter notice.