Tell tale sighs a is breeder ok

jojo2910

I have been reading this thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3555223
and have some questions about a breeder we are going to see at the weekend.

We are after a basset hound puppy and my husband found one through Pets 4 Homes. After reading in the attached thread about not using a breeder who advertises on free sites and the dogs only being DL registered, I'm worried that we are going to a puppy farm.

The breeder's site mentions there are pedigree lines in the family, including a crufts winner.

Is there anything we should look for when we go at the weekend, before we commit to a puppy.

suki1964

Why would you pay for a pedigree pup thats not fully registered with the KC?

Dog Lovers is a scam. Its for puppy farmers and back yard breeders. They play on the fact those most people are " ignorant" as to what a pup having papers means


Now the KC is not with out its flaws - I grant you that, but they are the only body in this country that sets a breed and breeders standards.

For a pup to be KC registered, the parents have to be. Those parents also have to have had the health checks done that the KC deem to be necessary for the breed. The parents also have to be at least 2 years old and only one litter a year can be registered.

DL register - any one can apply.You have no idea of what you are buying when buying a DL registered dog. Sure there could well be a crufts winner in the family somewhere - but that means nothing. What you are looking for is the paper work proving that the parents have been (in bassets ) eye and elbow tested as minimum. And these tests are not cheap which is why puppy farmers and back yard breeders dont have them done.

If you are looking for a pedigree dog - ie a recognised breed - then the only place to go is via the BREED CLUB. No reputable breeder advertises in the free ads. Most reputable breeders have no need to advertise full stop

krlyr

First of all, well done for asking this now rather than worrying about it after you've bought the dog.
Did you read the APBC article on the linked thread? Full of good info - http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/good_breeder

I think the main, basic thing to consider is why is this person breeding dogs? A reputable breeder wants to better the breed, to breed for temperament and health, to breed to the breed standards and to send their puppies to fab homes. So anything that suggests otherwise should be a red flag. Does the breeder seem overly keen for you to take the puppy, without going home to mull it over? Could well be in it for the money and don't want this 'sale' to slip away. Does the breeder seem to care whether you're a suitable home? A good breeder will ask as many questions to you as you to them - and will turn you away if they feel you cannot provide the best home for the puppy. Expect to be asked about your housing/garden situation, how much research you've done, what you're going to feed the pup, if you've found a local vet, if you're prepared for x, y or z issues (housetraining, pulling on the lead, etc). If they don't ask, chances are they don't care - again, they just want the sale.
As mentioned on the Cocker puppy thread - how traceable are they? Do they give a landline, a home address? Are they happy for you to pop in and visit whenever suits you, or have they set strict dates/times you can visit? With the latter, they may be hiding something - dogs kept in poor conditions day-to-day, bringing in a fake mum (breeders are catching on to the requests to see pups with mum and bringing an unrelated !!!!! in as a prop), etc.
"Pedigree" means nothing - I could breed my rescue dogs (well, if they weren't already neutered/spayed!) and type up a family tree - that piece of paper is a pedigree. In dogs, it tends to be used to mean purebred, but purebred doesn't mean healthy. So having a 'pedigree line' means nothing at all, other than that they've kept a record of the lineage (and you don't even know if the pedigree would be true or complete, they may have falsified bits or omitted iffy parts). It's health test results that you're interested in, because a reputable breeder will do the tests. Not only that but they'll keep an eye on any litters they've rehomed for health issues - so if the breeder seems to show no interest in keeping in contact with you after you take the pup, that's another red flag.

I definately agree with the suggestion to go to the breed club - find shows in your area, get chatting to owners of the breed. Word of mouth is one of the best ways to find out a decent breeder, because recommendations (for and against!) spread fairly quickly in these kind of circles.

Caroline_a

I guess you have already spoken to the breeder to make the appointment to see the pups. Every breeder I have had pups from have always given me the 3rd degree before I was even allowed near the pups!! And rightly so. I would be deeply suspicious of someone who tried to do a sales job on me with no questions about me, my family situation, other dogs I've owned, my house/garden/job, etc etc etc.

Because I've had dogs for years I'm ok with that, and have ended up chatting for ages with the breeders! However, a quick 'yes we're number 35, come at 2.00' would have me very worried!

Tropez

In my experience, a good breeder has as many questions about you and your circumstances as you should have about the pups. A good breeder will want to know exactly what type of home his/her dogs are going to and many will want to see your property first and often this is just as much about alerting you to potential pitfalls as it is at putting their mind at ease. A good breeder is a dog lover and someone who knows dogs and has experience with dogs - so they know that puppies are a malevolent little hand full hellbent on wrecking all and sundry, so breeders often prefer to visit potential owners so they can see that the home is not only sufficient for the puppy's needs but is also safe for the puppy and they will point out things that you may have long missed such as a little bit of cable poking round the side of a TV cabinet - you might miss it, but the bloody puppy won't!

Paradigm

Caroline_a wrote: »

I guess you have already spoken to the breeder to make the appointment to see the pups. Every breeder I have had pups from have always given me the 3rd degree before I was even allowed near the pups!! And rightly so. I would be deeply suspicious of someone who tried to do a sales job on me with no questions about me, my family situation, other dogs I've owned, my house/garden/job, etc etc etc.

Because I've had dogs for years I'm ok with that, and have ended up chatting for ages with the breeders! However, a quick 'yes we're number 35, come at 2.00' would have me very worried!

I agree with almost everything you posted...except the bit I highlighted.

I always found it easier to get a "feeling" about a buyer face to face rather than over the phone. Could just be me though I suppose

Although I did reject one guy in an instant when I was trying to rehome & 15 month old girl that I took back.... his 1st question when I answered the phone was "has she been cut", that was enough for me!

AliceJenkins

Hi

The easiest way, is just google their phone number and see what other ads they've been placing, if they have ads for more than one breed avoid at all cost.

The puppy farmers are very easy to spot, same photo in older ads, breeding many breeds.

The Crufts winner stuff will all be true, if a male dog wins at crufts it will have thousands of puppies. It doesn't really reflect anything.

Caroline_a

Paradigm wrote: »

I agree with almost everything you posted...except the bit I highlighted.

I always found it easier to get a "feeling" about a buyer face to face rather than over the phone. Could just be me though I suppose

Although I did reject one guy in an instant when I was trying to rehome & 15 month old girl that I took back.... his 1st question when I answered the phone was "has she been cut", that was enough for me!

I agree. However, most of the dogs I have got as pedigrees have been some distance away, so I think that the breeders do this to save you a wasted journey (+ their wasted time!). A friend of mine who recently bred her b1tch only wanted one litter, but did all the health checks, etc. She had some very weird people wanting puppies, and weeded out a lot that way on the phone!

Paradigm

Caroline_a wrote: »

I agree. However, most of the dogs I have got as pedigrees have been some distance away, so I think that the breeders do this to save you a wasted journey (+ their wasted time!). A friend of mine who recently bred her b1tch only wanted one litter, but did all the health checks, etc. She had some very weird people wanting puppies, and weeded out a lot that way on the phone!

I must admit I've had some muppets call. I do agree with you though, it's just that I'm not a phone person... I much prefer to see the whites of their eyes

giantmutantbroccoli

I would be wary of anybody who is breeding "pedigree" dogs but couldn't get them registered with the KC. I suggest you ask them why they've used DL instead - it could be that they've had bad experiences with the KC, or it could be that their pups aren't eligible for registration - KC won't register pups from a b!tch that's over 8 years old or had too many litters in too short a space of time (I think it's three litters in 2 years but could be wrong). Look at the mother dog - is she healthy? Is she fully grown and of a reasonable age to be breeding from - generally that would be between 2-8 years of age. Do they have plenty of space and facilities to look after the dogs? Why did they decide to breed? Where's the stud dog from? If they own both the stud dog and the mother that is typically a bad sign, especially for a small time breeder as it implies that they haven't put much thought into it and just went with what was easier for them. Likewise, if they have more than one breeding b!tch or produce more than one litter per year, stay away. Do they provide any information with the pups? What is the feeding/care routine like? Have the pups been health checked for problems common to the breed and have they been vaccinated? Are the pups a healthy weight - they should be a bit on the roly-poly side, but not fat! How does the mother behave around you when you visit - is she well-socialised? Ask them for the pedigree details before you commit to buying any pups, and contact the kennel that produced the mother dog (and the stud, too if you can) to see what they thought of the people. Most importantly, listen to the questions they ask you! They should be asking you where you live, do you have the space and time to care for a pup, do you have any experience of raising a pup or with that particular breed, that sort of thing. If they don't interrogate you about how the pup will be looked after, don't buy it! Ask them about how they care for their dogs, what recommendations they have for caring for the pups, what food they give them, what treats, how much exercise they should have etc. If you don't like any of the answers (a bit of reading around will tell you what the answers should be), stay away. If they raise their pups on pedigree chum and ambrosia rice pudding that's generally a bad sign Ideally, you should be seeing the pups at least once before taking one home with you, so if they offer you one straight off that's another warning sign.

Person_one

Would you be willing to consider a rescue dog?

Here are the breed specific rescues http://www.bassethoundwelfare.org.uk/index.htm, http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/findarescue/Default.aspx?breed=1003,

There will also be Bassets or Basset crosses in all breed rescues, here's a good place to start or just type 'dog rescue' into google and start trawling!

Getting a rescue dog takes away all this stress about finding the right breeder and you know you'll be doing a wonderful thing for the dog regardless of its origins.