Fitting stove liner and register plate

lagi

Due to funds, could i have multi fuel stove liner and register plate fitted in advance ready to fit a stove at a later date?

Or do you think it would be better to save the money and try and get it all done at the same time?

(I would be fitting myself).

hethmar

Do it all in one bash. You will have to get buildings control in to sign it off anyway.

OptionARMAGEDDON

No you dont. You can get bc to waste your cash and send someone round to sign it off, on the otherhand, you can just ignore all the rubbish unenforced regulation created by the last government. Part p and part j. Personally, completely ignored and thousands better off in pocket (i do a lot of research and make sure i know all i need to know though) .The only notifiable i leave well alone is gas. For pretty obvious reasons.

Greenfires

Not very clever advice unfortunately, and if there's ever a chimney fire or any other incident that can be related to the stove, then questions WILL be asked, and you won't have a leg to stand on.

But yes, by all means ignore the regulations. While you're at it, don't worry about taxing or insuring your car, and run it on red diesel - you'll save a fortune...

Just edited to add - why draw the line with gas? You can kill yourself just as effectively with carbon monoxide from a dodgy solid fuel stove installation as you can with a faulty gas boiler. See stories in the papers all too often...

OptionARMAGEDDON

let me guess... you do installs. same claptrap by tradesmen not doing a particularly skilled job for rates of pay comparable to corgi or niceic qualified engineers. Notification is a scam. Any reasonably educated person can pick up a copy of the regs and do a fully compliant install as long as they have basic diy skills. the subsequent testing isn difficult either. if it was hard you wouldnt have people who left school at 16 doing them.

what really RREALLY annoyed me was when every qualified installer locally refused to install a personally procured flue as I refused to be ripped off on the price of the flue. on top of wanting 300 a day labour ( a joke for effectively a bit of push me pull me) attaching a few jubilee clips and screwing in a few self tapping screws. they then wanted to charge twice, yes, twice the price for the same brand flue.

As I am following regs, i have installed a co Detector and have no chance of dying of poisoning! want to show me a few of those mythical news articles that have happened in the last 12 months? bet you cant!

Want to tell me how this mystical house fire is going to occur seeing as i am lining an existing flue (none of your installer members when contacted could tell me correctly that it didnt need a flue lining and actually only needs a register plate, accrdng to them, the regs necessitate a flue liner big bucks for them of course.... which i know is complete !!!! as I have read the regs cover to cover).

The council are more than welcome to take me to court and check my completely regulation abiding diy work I shant be paying lazy overcharging tradesmen for the work, nor will i be paying LABC to check work i know is 100% fine!

Greenfires

You guessed completely wrong I'm afraid - I don't do installs.

Yes - you're right - anyone is perfectly entitled, and usually able to install their own stoves. Building regs part J are freely available online to download. I've never made any secret of this, and I'm not touting for business.

If your installers have told you the flue must be lined (without doing a leak test), then they are wrong - end of story. Building regs do not mention ANYWHERE that a chimney MUST be lined when fitting a stove. The reason many installers insist on a liner is that chimney conditions are completely different between stoves and open fires, and slow moving smoke in a cool stove chimney is much more likely to condense and can then gradually eat through the mortar joints and appear on inside walls. When this happens, and I've seen it often enough myself, the customer is not happy - and guess who gets the blame? That's why many installers insist on a liner. The only other reason would be if the chimney was unsound and leaking. Put yourself in the installers shoes though - someone in a crumbling old house wants a stove and the chimney seems to be just about okay - but what if it DOES start leaking fumes a year down the line - would you as aan installer want it on your conscience if someone copped it as a result?

Lots of stove users burn poor quality wet wood - usually because they think it's a good price. This leads to creosote condensing inside the chimney and can build up in a matter of months to the extent where it's quite likely to catch fire. A fire inside a liner is probably going to result in less damage than one in an open chimney - but is still best avoided. I see chimneys coated in the stuff every day, and I've seen liners completely blocked - that's why a CO detector is a must. Fall asleep on the sofa in front of the stove with a blocked liner and it's possibly the last time you'll do it.

I don't bookmark reports of accidents with stoves unfortunately - perhaps I should. I seem to be reading them online often enough though. Chimney fires are on the increase - there had been over 10,000 a year the last time I checked up. I know a couple of guys in the fire service locally and they go to a lot of them.

You've read the regs and you obviously know the score - and by the sounds of it you're not likely to have a problem. All I'm saying is that if you DID - then there would be consequences if the installation hadn't been signed off. And just because you're making sure you've done it right, it doesn't mean that everyone else would, so I don't think it's good advice to recommend they just ignore the requirements.

A._Badger

I can see both sides of this, but I'm going to make the same remark I always make on this subject. It is absolutely and manifestly wrong for a private limited company, HETAS, to have been given the power to set its own rules and obtain what amounts to a monopoly in this market.

Far too often HETAS registered people give misleading advice and previous posts here have suggested that quality enforcement isn't always what it might be, when problems arise.

Moreover, it is clear that it is in the interests of any self-regulating monopoly to create work for its customers (the installers) whenever it can.

My own experience as an interested customer has told me to treat what installers and stove retailers say with a pinch of salt. By far the best advice I have had has come from experienced chimney sweeps.

Greenfires

HETAS fitters aren't all bad 'uns, but unfortunately what Badger says below is all too often the case.

A._Badger wrote: »

Far too often HETAS registered people give misleading advice and previous posts here have suggested that quality enforcement isn't always what it might be, when problems arise.

By far the best advice I have had has come from experienced chimney sweeps.

I've seen some shocking jobs and some shocking prices being paid for them. I only recommend one fitter for all installation queries I get locally these days because I know he does a proper job, and I never have any problem sweeping his installations at a later date. I've seen plenty of other jobs all signed off by HETAS engineers that don't even comply with building regs - and some customers have obviously had their pants pulled down good and proper. It's hard sometimes having to break the news to these people when you go round to do a sweep or whatever - that you can't actually do anything to help them or even sweep their chimney.

The same goes to a greater or lesser extent for many other trade organisations - this is why although I'm more or less in favour of these bodies, I've never joined one, and don't have any particular intention of doing so. In an ideal world, choosing a sweep with membership of GMCS, ICS, NACS or any of the others SHOULD guarantee you get a good job - but sadly it often doesn't. I've followed one big company with all sorts of badges on their vans onto a number of jobs round here and the advice they've given to some customers has been worthy of a visit from Anne Robinson or whoever else is doing the rogue trader stuff these days. I honestly don't know how they sleep at nights - I'd rather walk away from a job and lose money than try some of the moves they do. I kind of think that bad mouthing the competition is bad style, so I don't name names - but it's a constant thorn in my side to be honest!

Andy

deano72_2

i can see both sides aswell.i was going to install my woodburner & liner but then read a bit on it & thought well technically a piece of p but then thought no il get a hetas installer in,so paid him some big bucks & of he went.anyway had sweep round the other day he said the hetas guy didnt either bother sealing the joints from the burner to the flu so from my exsperiance sofar the sweep knows more about it than the installer.
i dont want to hijack the op thread but gona take addvantage,the air vent was orignally installed in the the wall but i have put a door there now so is it poss to install the vent in my suspended floor (1930s house with suspended wooden floor) as a cavity wall insulation rep said this was a no no according to the regs but i cant see where it says that in the regs