PCN broke down at a garrage

arielcohen

Hello all

My cars battery was acting up so i drove it to the local garage, they were full inside so they told me to park it round the side and wait for some space. As I was waiting on the side of the road I stalled and the car wouldn't start up because of the battery. I told them and they said to leave it their they would take care of it and i could pick the car up later in the day. I did just that and when i picked it up everything was fine and i thought that was the end of it.

A few months later I get a letter saying that the pcn amount was outstanding and that the charge of £110 is now enforced. I took the letter to the garage, and asked them about the pcn they told me they would write a letter saying the car broke down outside the shop and they were trying to fix it.

Penalty charge notice was on my car on the 19/04/2011 and i got a letter today saying that my appeal was rejected and i can now appeal to the Adjudicator.

They have also offered me the reduced amount for a further 14 days of £55

Now the questions I have is, do I have grounds for an appeal since I literally couldn't switch my car back on until it was fixed.

Would appealing to the adjudicator mean that i would loose the right to pay the reduced fee of £55

I never received the PCN and don't have any copy of it, does that have any bearing on this case for my right to appeal (I assume the garage might have taken it so they wouldn't be blamed)

I've seen the picture on the letter they sent me but it really isn't clear enough to tell if the pcn is on the car or not.

Any help is appreciated,

Thanks

AlexisV

What were the reasons for rejection?

The chance to pay discounted rate is now lost, but I would appeal to the adjudicator.

The issue is whether the situation was beyond the driver's control. If you drove to the garage and it packed up outside, that would be such a situation. If you knew there was a problem and parked up on a yellow line but then it wouldn't start, things could be a bit trickier because you knew that if you turned the car off it probably wouldn't restart.

So it depends on what the garage told the council really. Ideally you'd want to be appealing that "the car stalled just as you were approaching the garage and you had no choice but to pull up there and then. The problem turned out to be the battery and the enclosed garage receipt demonstrates the car had a mechanical problem."

vax2002

Where does it ask you to send the payment to : can you post this up please
I just ask as some PPC are starting to use words such as adjudicator in rejected appeals.

arielcohen

arielcohen wrote: »

Hello all
They have also offered me the reduced amount for a further 14 days of £55

In the councils rejection of my challenge they said they would give me another 14 days from the date of the letter to pay the reduced amount of £55 so that still is an option for now, will i still have this option if go to the adjudicator.

Your right that's part of the problem, I don't have the pcn I don't have the letter the garage wrote to Barnet. So I don't know what they wrote, not sure if the garage would still have a copy of the letter they must have sent over a month ago.

Coupon-mad

No you do not have the £55 option if it goes to adjudication.

But a broken down vehicle is 'circumstances beyond your control' and you can prove it. So personally I would not be happy to pay them £55 under these circs! I would appeal to the adjudicator and pay nothing (hopefully, when you win, as MOST people do win!).

Why did you ask the garage to write direct to Barnet - they should have written a letter for YOU to forward a copy of, to Barnet, quoting the PCN number and all. Maybe the garage wrote a letter, maybe they didn't, maybe it was tied up with your case, maybe it wasn't.

You need to take control of what is sent where and by when - never assume things have been done when your money depends on it!

So first things first. Ring the garage and ask if they have a copy of the letter they sent to Barnet Council. If not, ask if they would be good enough to give a letter to you instead - even a hand-written note on their headed paper - so that YOU have the evidence for the adjudicator.

Then keep the original and only issue copies of it in your appeals; take the original along with your evidence/letters when you go to the adjudication hearing (a fairly informal meeting looking at both sides of the evidence). Use AlexisV's wording in reply #2 above.

arielcohen

The PCN is issued from Barnet, just phoned their pcn helpline and they informed me the letter they received was very badly worded and brief. Had I written the letter with more information about the stalling and given a receipt from the garage it probably would have been ok.

The reason I let the garage send the letter is because I thought they have experiencing with this and it seemed like they knew what they were doing, clearly I was wrong.

I was told to email another letter to Barnet with full information about what happened, and to send in receipts if it was possible. I'm filling out the form for the adjudicator, I'm not sure what category my grounds for appeal would be under. All of them don't fit, their doesn't seem to be anything close to circumstances beyond my control.

I think it would be easier to have a postal decision since traveling to Islington isn't very convenient. will it make much of a difference

Edit: payments shout be sent to: London Borough of Barnet, Parking Process, P.O. Box 27284, London N11 1YB

ripped_off_driver

Quote this case to the adjudicator and you should be fine:

Vehicle unable to move because of circumstances beyond driver’s control:
GSL Ltd v Kensington & Chelsea (PATAS Case No. 2060175326)
The local authority did not dispute that the vehicle had a faulty alternator cable. It said, however, that the vehicle being unable to move for this reason did not constitute a reason beyond the driver's control. The Adjudicator said he failed to see why it was not. It was not equivalent, as the local authority suggested, to running out of petrol. Appeal allowed.

Use the ground of appeal "the contravention did not occur".

arielcohen

Thanks ill do just that, your right on the ball for the reason they said that my appeal was rejected

"i appreciate that you vehicles battery may have needed replacing bit it is the owner's responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is maintained and a faulty battery is not classes as a breakdown. in any event the vehicle should have been inside the garage or parked elsewhere at the time."

thanks for all the advice and help, it really is appreciated. I will include the case that you mentioned to the adjudicator.

arielcohen

Here is a draft letter I wrote up, what do you guys think?
all I need to do now is get a copy of the receipt or a letter headed paper from my garage saying that i did break down on that day right? I might also include a map of the garage to where the car broke down to show that they are on the same road less then 15 meters apart.




Name address and PCN number will go here before i send the email off

London Borough of Barnet
Parking Service
P O Box 27284
London
N11 1YB

To whom it may concern

My car was experiencing some problems on the 19th of April 2011; I took the car to my local mechanic that day. As I was pulling up the garage my car stalled and I had no choice but to pull up then and there. I tried to restart the engine but was out of luck, the owners of the garage told me they would try and fix the car as soon as possible, and I picked the car up later that day. The problem turned out to be the battery and the enclosed garage receipt demonstrates the car had a mechanical problem.

The council has said that a faulty battery is not classed as a breakdown
I found this case of GSL ltd v Kensington & Chelsea (PATAS Case No.2060175326) that should help substantiate my claim.

Vehicle unable to move because of circumstances beyond driver’s control:
The local authority did not dispute that the vehicle had a faulty alternator cable. It said, however, that the vehicle being unable to move for this reason did not constitute a reason beyond the driver's control. The Adjudicator said he failed to see why it was not. It was not equivalent, as the local authority suggested, to running out of petrol. Appeal allowed.

AlexisV

Sounds good, but I'd use the paper NtO form and the post personally.

arielcohen

I will send this via email to Barnet (the person on the phone asked me to do this), and will attach a copy to the Notice of Appeal form that I will send of to the adjudicators.

I think I'm all set, thanks again. Will try and update this post with the decision when I get it in a few months by post.