Slow Executor

fidgeuk

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping you can give me some advice regarding the granting of probate & how to deal with a slow executor who is also my mother!!

My Uncle Malcolm (mum's brother) died in May 2008 - he left 50% of his estate to me and my siblings and the other 50% to my cousins (his borther Simon's children - also my mum's brother) All our names have been listed in the will - i have a copy of it.

Uncle Malcolm lived with my parents in the farm cottage upto the day he died - my mum did his washing, looked after him, cooking meals, tidying his room etc. He was joint partner with my Uncle Simon of the farm/business.

She organised for the farm buisness to be valued by an accountant & received details in July 2009?

My mum sent the will & accounts etc after completing the forms to HMRC in October 2009 - Uncle Malcolm had asked lloyds Bank to act as executors but they renounced it/didn't want to do it, which explained why the probate office had not received the will or forms from HMRC.

so my mum suggested she & Simon be the executors as she had access to all his paperwork etc it seemed like a good idea to us beneficiaries & we authorised the change at the end of Jan'10.

Since then nothing seems to have happened - whenever i speak to my mum about it she says that HMRC & the Probate Office have lost all the original documents. My Mum reckons she has complained & spent hours on the phone regarding it to HMRC & Probate Office. About 4 weeks ago she said the probate Office had been in touch & she should be called for an interview in about 2 weeks - spoke to her today & she said she hadn't heard anything from them - all of this i find highly suspect.

My Dad believes she is stalling - quite why i don't know but she has a terrible record for running up debts, stealing from family, mainly my dad but also her son & me. I realise we probably shouldn't have agreed to her being an executor but as my Uncle Simon was also to be an executor we thought he would keep an eye on proceedings - after speaking to Dad today it appears he is being pressurised by my cousins for their inheritance & is as much in the dark over this as we are.

My Uncle Malcolm relied on my Mum for everything including getting him money from the bank so you can imagine what we are all thinking!! She is also pretty miffed he didn't change his will like he had been promising before he died - amended it in her favour coz of taking care of him for the past 15 years.

Can anyone here offer any advice on what we can do about this - 3 years to sort out a persons will seems an excessive amount of time by anyones standards and although i hate to say it i just don't trust my mum anymore. Sorry for going on but wanted to give you as much information as i know, which doesn't seem to be much!!

thanks

sarah - a frustrated beneficiary who could really do with her inheritance coz her daughters just started University and is bleeding me dry!!!

Emmzi

what is more important to you, family or money?
it is possible to have mum removed as executor but it may be a bloody battle.
family meeting?

pearl123

Go to the CAB for advise. It's free.

fidgeuk

Well, ok maybe i should just let the matter go - why not? my Mum has probably already had the money anyway!! But its not just me as the Beneficiary & i know my siblings aren't too happy with the length of time this is taking. I don't for one minute imagine my cousins will let the matter lie so i suppose i could just wait & see what happens. I believe i have a good relationship with my mum - had sunday lunch with her at the weekend - but it would be immensely embarrassing if she had been taking money from the bank account & depriving my siblings and cousins of their inheritance.

Unfortunately my mother has a habit of this kind of thing.

I have read on here that an executor has a year to get things moving? is this correct? what can be done once the 12 months has passed?

thanks

sarah

Tuesday_Tenor

I googled 'removing an executor' and found several helpful sites: this one seems particularly clear and comprehensive:

http://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/resources/articles/wtt_removing_substituting_executors.aspx
Scroll down to the section: 'What if the named Executor is not performing his duties correctly?'

Taking everything at face value, it would seem to me that it would be an appropriate time for any of the beneficiaries (and ideally all of them together) to write a letter to the executors asking for them to account for the process/their actions so far.
However, there are several things in your account of your uncle's probate process which don't quite make sense to me:

- Are your mother and Uncle Simon actually 'Executors'. I'm not sure about this, but if the only named executors (the solicitors) wouldn't do it then there there are technically no executors. However, the best-placed next of kin (Mum and Uncle S) apply to the Court of Probate for Letters of Administration. Perhaps you're using 'executors' as shorthand, as the Administrators fulful the same function as executors ...

- 'seemed like a good idea to us beneficiaries & we authorised the change at the end of Jan'10'. I don't think the beneficiaries have any authority over this. I guess you mean that when Mum and Uncle S were applying for Letters of Administration they would have to list other close relatives (which in this case = beneficiaries) and you all agreed you were happy with their application, as the best-placed people to apply for probate?

- What is Uncle Simon's role in all this. A copy of your letter should go to each of the Administrators.

- Remember that your mother and Uncle Simon became 'execs/administrators' in Jan 2010, so they have been working on this for almost 2 years, not the almost 4 years since 2008.

- I would imagine that the Administration for a partner in a farm business would be extremely complex. There are land owenship issues and busines ownership issues. I have a friend who was a partner in a farming business with her ex-husband and his parents. The divorce settlement DID take MANY years to sort out. [Though in that case there were elements to be negotiated, which isn't the case for the administration of a will].

- Is all of Uncle Malcom's estate tied up in the farmland and the farm business? In which case, are all the neices and nephews going to beome Directors? What will the mechanism for managing the farm be? Bear in mind that there may not be any 'money' as such, only shares in the business which may or may not be profitable and so may or may not yield an annual return.

- I'm a great believer in not involving solicitors for simple estates; however, this sounds to be a situation where the Administrators would need a LOT of assistance from solicitors. Do the Administrators actually know what they have to do?

- Who owns the farm business at the moment: Presumaly (a) Uncle Simon and (b) The Estate of Uncle Malcolm deceased. [As I read it neither of your parens own any part of the farm business?]

- It is interesting that the solicitors didn't want to be executors. Usually solicitors are keen to be executors at it is usually relatively 'easy pickings' for them. Possibly they had just lost staff/were just too busy. Or was it that they could foresee how complex it was going to be / no actual 'cash element' to pay their bills / outstanding legal complications/missing documents/disputed ownership/failing business that should already have ceased trading ... Just throwing out ideas of some of the things that might emerge from the woodwork ... Maybe your mother is doing her best, but it's very complicated ...

- Maybe the letter to the Execs/Administrtors, when expressing concern, needs to ask whether any assistance is required, from family members or from legal advisors ...?

Just a few things to think about ... Good luck!

pearl123

"write a letter to the executors asking for them to account for the process/their actions so far." I aggree with tueday tenor.
There are several of you who are due to inherit - it is in your interest to find out what is going on. Most people would be jumping up and down after a year! Your mother should really have been keepin your informed all along.
Maybe you mother is also incapable in doing the job.

j.e.j.

I do sympathise, - a relative of mine actually took SEVEN YEARS to get his father's will and estate sorted (for which he was the executor). Every time someone asked him he always had a plausible reason as to why he'd not made any further progress, but it just went on and on.. and on!

OP if you have reason to think your mother might be up to no good, re. the money, I would I think speak in the first instance with the co-executor. After that I guess it's a case of: do you all want to tackle your mother about this and risk causing a family row, or would you be happier just letting her get on with it. It's a difficult one, - so many families seem to fall out over inheritance issues.

fidgeuk

Hi Pearl & Tuesday Tenor,

Thank you very much for your replies.

Just a few points to make. The farm itself is owned by the War Department (MOD) its on Salisbury Plain & passed down from my Granddad & Great Uncle to my 2 Uncles Simon & Malcolm. I'm not sure how the succession worked but i know they don't own the farm or land.

My parents do not have any vested interest in the farm, although my Dad works on the farm & lives in the tied cottage with my Mum - following my Uncle Malcolm's ill-health he decided to live with my Mum & Dad up until he died - approximately 15 years or so.

The business was jointly held between uncle simon & uncle Malcolm.
The farm business was valued in July 2008 but the farm accountant was extremely slow in working out Malcolm's share of the farm at the date he died.

I believe my Mum completed all the forms & sent everything off to them in October 2009. At this point none of us were aware that the bank had renounced its right to execute the will.

Mum kept phoning to find out what was going on & was eventually advised that nothing had been done because of the bank situation.

Anyway on the 27th January 2010 all the beneficiaries signed letters stating we would like Uncle Malcolm & my Mum to administer the estate.

You are right i have got confused & yes I agree that mum & simon would not be executers but would be granted letters of administration by the probate office - sorry, never had to deal with anything like this before!

Since then Mum has been less than forthcoming with whats been happening. During the spring of this year she said that the probate Office still hadn't received the paperwork from HMRC and that when she spoke to HMRC they said they hadn't got the paperwork either!

Some months later when questioned about it Mum said she'd written a letter to her MP complaining about them losing the paperwork. I advised her to resend the paperwork, telling them that as they lost it they would have to make do with her copies of the will etc.

Apparently she has done this & as i said earlier told me about 4 weeks ago that she was waiting for an appointment for her probate interview.

I believe writing to both Simon & my Mum is a good idea & i was already starting to think along those lines. Can i write the letter off my own back but copy in the beneficiaries? We all live a long way away from each other & some of us don't speak with others, which makes communicating difficult.

Thank you for all your help, its appreciated

Sarah

fidgeuk

Hi j.e.j

Seven years??? If it takes that long theres every chance simon or mum might croak it!!! Joking!!! They are quite ancient but still healthy & fit, although i do wonder about mum's memory sometimes!!

My mum really hasn't a clue about money - shes spends what she doesn't have & then she begs, borrows & steals to pay of her debts. Me and my siblings have all had to deal with various financial problems she has had & she has robbed my brother & me of our cash from out of our wallets. But the worst thing she did was to steal £5K from out of Dad's savings account because a man whose horse she sold but not repaid was threatening her with court action - Dad went to draw out some money to pay the balance on a new car he was getting only to be told the account had nothing in it!! My mum said nothing at all about the money the whole time he was sorting out the new car yet she knew she had emptied the account. She denied all knowledge about it even though the bank advised Dad that she had drawn it out - it wasn't until the man whose horse she sold saw Dad one day & thanked him for getting mother to pay up that she finally admitted it had been her!!

I love her dearly, shes my mum but i don't trust her an inch!!

pearl123

Maybe a letter at first, but maybe visit to an solisiter for advise in the long run as it all sounds rather complex. If your mother is that poor with money/balancing her own budget. How can she be expected to be that capable as a executer? It does not bode well. Can you ask her to see all the paper work up to date? Just to see how organised she is.

Tuesday_Tenor

1) If the names and locations you've given are real, then be careful, as you are giving away personal information that could identify the family.

2) >>> Can i write the letter off my own back but copy in the beneficiaries?
From the link I gave:
A beneficiary or next of kin may question the Executor’s actions. If in doubt, the first step is always to write to the Executor and ask him to render an account of the administration of the Estate. If the beneficiary or next of kin is still not satisfied by the Executors’ explanation, then he or she may apply to Court to remove and substitute the Executor.

As it says 'a beneficiary may question ...', I think it's fine to write independently. Copying to all the other beneficiaries would be a good idea.

3) Write now or later?
If the probate interview seems to be imminent, I wonder if I might wait a bit to see how that goes and what happens afterwards ...
However ... I'd still be a bit worried:
a) You're mother's general financial acumen might not be up to the job
b) I can't think why HMRC would be sending something directly to the Probate Office. Wouldn't whatever it was need to go through the execs/admins. If nothing else, the execs/admins might want to take a copy. So, like you, I'd be a bit concerned about your mother's version of events. Suspecting incompetence rather than conspiracy at the moment ... but either way you need to know that everything is now in order.

On balance, I think I probably would write:
- Write to both Administrators. Send a copy to each of them. They share this responsibility.
- Ask for a summary of actions to date as you are concerned about the time it is taking.
- Ask whether any assistance is required, from family members or from legal advisors ...?
- Ask that all benficiaries be updated regularly.

It will be important, as your mother tends not to do things very formally, not to be fobbed off with a verbal response.
I don't think that the initial letter needs to be TOO heavy, these are polite requests. The important thing is to get communication more formalised; and to get the Administrtors to realise that they DO need to communicate.

If you are not satisifed with the response I think I would respond with a reminder, in writing, of the duties of the Administrators. (Which include proper record-keeping). I wondered whether to put this in the first letter, but on the whole think not.

You need to give some thought to how you would react to various levels of imcompetant response, after this, from the Administrators. [If they respond competently, then no worries ...]

Just my thoughts ... best wishes however you decide to handle it.