Subsidence - What are the implications

Clearlier

So we've seen a house with a relatively big crack in it. The EA has told us that the vendor commissioned a survey and that it has been caused by drains. It's a probate sale and the house is a significant renovation job anyway.

We have been steering clear of houses with a history of subsidence mainly because we don't know very much about it. However this house is in our ideal location at a price that we may be able to reach (depending on negotations). It's easily the worst house on a good street. Both of those points are very attractive to us.

Aside from fixing the drain, underpinning the foundations and repairing the crack is there any other work that typically needs to be done with a subsiding house?

Also what are the longer term implications of owning a house with subsidence?

I'm assuming it'll be harder to sell given that we preferred to avoid it?

I remember reading on another thread that insurance can be hard to come by, any guesstimates as to how much more expensive it might be?

Would it be difficult/impossible to get a mortgage (80%) on a house with subsidence?

Anything else?

Southend1

There was another post on here recently about a house with subsidence. The insurance excess was £5k due to the subsidence but the OP was having problems finding a mortgage company that would accept a property with excess over £1k.

camptownraces

Clearlier wrote: »

So we've seen a house with a relatively big crack in it. ...

Aside from fixing the drain, underpinning the foundations and repairing the crack is there any other work that typically needs to be done with a subsiding house?

Also what are the longer term implications of owning a house with subsidence?

I'm assuming it'll be harder to sell given that we preferred to avoid it? YES

I remember reading on another thread that insurance can be hard to come by, any guesstimates as to how much more expensive it might be?

Would it be difficult/impossible to get a mortgage (80%) on a house with subsidence? YES

Anything else?

The mortgage money may not be released until the work is done.
The wall with the crack may have to be rebuilt.
As a consequence, the house may have to be re-roofed.
How much do you think underpinning will cost?

Have you had a full structural survey yet?

G_M

Online Insurance will be out - specialist (more expensive) insurers only.
Selling will be hard.
Mortgage may be turned down or partly witheld pending works.

It may not be 'drains' (never trust the sellers - get your own surveyor).
Even if 'drains' what does this mean? £50 to rod/clear them? Or £2000 to lay new ones?

Dustykitten

Our house had subsidence (mild,one bay window had to be rebuilt) 20 years ago (we have been here 10 years). We have had to remain with the same insurance company who dealt with the claim throughout as nobody else will even quote. It is much more expensive. We live in an area prone to subsidence (clay sub soil) so lots of the properties have had minor problems over the decades.

FOX_HOUND

On the drain issue haven't 'shared drains' in England and Wales become the responsibility of the local water company? If they have then possibly it is their responsibility to put it right.

Only your own survey will give you the facts about the subsidence. By the way, I've read that underpinning is quite rare.

Annisele

I'd be worried about why the crack hasn't been fixed already.

Why haven't the current owners (the executors of the estate) claimed on the existing buildings insurance? If that's because there is no insurance, you might find it impossible to get buildings insurance at any price until the crack has been fixed - and you won't be able to get a mortgage on an uninsurable property.

It may of course be that the insurance doesn't cover the crack for some reason, but I'd want to ask the question before spending any money at all.

Clearlier

Thanks for the replies so far.

Unsurprisingly there was no mention of this issue in the description and the EA seemed to be going out of his way not to mention the word subsidence. But drains problem causing a significant (thought not yet huge) crack in the external wall has to be subsidence doesn't it?

We've only had one viewing. I wouldn't dream of buying a property without a survey but I don't want to commission a survey for a house that I would never buy hence this post to hopefully get a better understanding of what we might end up dealing with.

I'm highly aware that the EA could be economical with the truth. It's not generally in his interest to point out flaws although he did tell us about this one just before we went in as you'd have to be seriously inobservant not to notice it.

The EA told us that the vendor had had an estimate to fix the problem which came in at 2k which he thought was a bit low so it's probably a bit more than just clearing them.

FOX HOUND - I had just assumed that if the house had subsided then you'd need to underpin the foundations. Can I take it that that's an incorrect assumption?

maryjane01

It may be unmortgageable until the subsidence issue is resolved, which will take specialist reports ,and monitoring etc which could take months, or you could get a mortgage with a 100% retention, which means it is effectively unmortgageable.

We looked at a very similar sounding property a couple of months ago, it had been with a local agent and ended up in an auction. We paid for a full structural survey before auction, but could not afford to take the risk because the surveyor said until the cause was established and dealt with it may be unmortgageable. Through a normal buying process you will get to do a mortgage survey before exchange of contracts, so there is less risk in that regard, but accept you may pay for a survey and then be unable to buy it.

In our case, the surveyor said no underpinning or structural work would be required, just the cause rectified (drains/trees) and then redecoration work. The house had been insured and was going to be repaired by the insurer after monitoring had taken place, so the lucky person with deep pockets containing a lot of cash got themselves an absolute bargain at auction.

FOX_HOUND

Clearlier wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far.

Unsurprisingly there was no mention of this issue in the description and the EA seemed to be going out of his way not to mention the word subsidence. But drains problem causing a significant (thought not yet huge) crack in the external wall has to be subsidence doesn't it?

We've only had one viewing. I wouldn't dream of buying a property without a survey but I don't want to commission a survey for a house that I would never buy hence this post to hopefully get a better understanding of what we might end up dealing with.

I'm highly aware that the EA could be economical with the truth. It's not generally in his interest to point out flaws although he did tell us about this one just before we went in as you'd have to be seriously inobservant not to notice it.

The EA told us that the vendor had had an estimate to fix the problem which came in at 2k which he thought was a bit low so it's probably a bit more than just clearing them.

FOX HOUND - I had just assumed that if the house had subsided then you'd need to underpin the foundations. Can I take it that that's an incorrect assumption?

It could be. Are the drains shared? If so, repair of the drains are now the responsibility of the water board. Was the crack caused by drains? There are many other causes for cracks as we know such as wall tie failure. Have you seen the report on what is causing the cracking?

There is a poster who normally comes on for these type of things called doozer girl. I believe she is/was an estate agent. Round my way many houses have cracks due to settlement on a sandy base when first built. I don't know of a single one that has required underpinning. There lies the problem with insurance. Some surveyors call that 'subsidence' others 'past settlement.' However, many call centre workers do not understand the difference. And there is.

propertyman

If you are having to negotiate on price how are you going to fund underpinning, or at best remedial repairs to the brickwork and drains?

You first ask the estate if they have made a claim on the insurance as if the works are covered by insurance they could be commissioned or assigned to you. Can you see nay reports that identified it as drain issue? Was the problem resolved? Don't expect the EA to understand a word of that- refer it to the the estates solicitors.The estate may take the view sell as is, or may even be unaware of the issue as the EA may be taking the "stick it on and see what happens" approach to selling.

Assuming it is "sold as seen" then you have to accept that you will need to look at the drains and making good. While a house may move as a result of moisture changes(leaks) in the soil, a year is normally enough for the soil to settle back where the leaks are small. Soil tests will reveal if this is the case and underpinning is or isn't needed. In mnay ways underpinning is at least a certainty, with along term insurance backed guarantee, it can be insured. Past movement is always a doubt for insurers- similar to I haven't had another heart attack in 5 years- the doubt and the higher premium will be there for a long time.

Accept that you need paid for advice and investigation. You may lose out to a more optimistic buyer, but they end up with the pig in the poke, not you.