Scamming the elderly by post

supermum1958

mazza111 wrote: »

Even if these are clearly marked, RM still have a legal obligation to the customer (the person that's paying for postage) to deliver them. Most of these items would be also selling things, RD for example, how on earth would u propose to stop people selling things through the mail? It's big business for them. How many of us have had a catalogue for example, only to find a few weeks later we get a special discount for another catalogue thru the post in the next few months? It's smart business sense and advertising to use the postal system for advertising.

I know how hurt and angry u must be that your mother has been conned like this, but u really can't put the blame at RM's door on this one, they provide a service for the paying customer. You could intercept these letters and mark on them unsolicited mail, RTS. But you will have a long battle, once these companies have your name and address they will keep sending.

Edit- Just actually read through your letter, most of the companies are selling things, overpriced or not, it's advertising their own products. I really think your parents are going to need help with this, if they can't tell a scam from normal junk advertising mail, then it's time to step in and do something. Have to agree with what other posters have said, it's your mother who needs help with this.

It's very easy for the postal redirection firms to tell their scam customers' productions from the others, as I think I have said - in almost all cases you can tell just from the envelopes. I would like it to be a legal requirement that they do not take contracts from scammers, while continuing to operate on behalf of normal sales mail - or junk mail as it's sometimes called.

supermum1958

mazza111 wrote: »

Even if these are clearly marked, RM still have a legal obligation to the customer (the person that's paying for postage) to deliver them. Most of these items would be also selling things, RD for example, how on earth would u propose to stop people selling things through the mail? It's big business for them. How many of us have had a catalogue for example, only to find a few weeks later we get a special discount for another catalogue thru the post in the next few months? It's smart business sense and advertising to use the postal system for advertising.

I know how hurt and angry u must be that your mother has been conned like this, but u really can't put the blame at RM's door on this one, they provide a service for the paying customer. You could intercept these letters and mark on them unsolicited mail, RTS. But you will have a long battle, once these companies have your name and address they will keep sending.

Edit- Just actually read through your letter, most of the companies are selling things, overpriced or not, it's advertising their own products. I really think your parents are going to need help with this, if they can't tell a scam from normal junk advertising mail, then it's time to step in and do something. Have to agree with what other posters have said, it's your mother who needs help with this.

Also Mazza, re your last para, sorry to go on, but the point with the selling overpriced things, the lure is the scam - that if you place an order over a certain amount, you can have that cheque you have definitely won. Thus, for instance, on a Biotonic letter I have here, on the envelope in bright red and yellow it says 'Winning Letter! Bank cheque for £15,5000! Your agreement is essential!' Inside, 'In a Few days it will be too late! Mrs. XXXXXX (they have my mother's name printed there) - you have officially been designated the winner (in yellow highlighter)! This is how your prize could be re-allocated..... you don't want this disastrous scenario to happen? They reply today!' and so on and so forth. Pages of it. Finally, after three pages like this, it turns out of course that you order so as to get the cheque 'with your parcel'.

I know it seems daft to us, but her name and address are printed over and over again in the letter. To an older person, this seems the clincher - that, and the fact that it has come with the Royal Mail postage imprint on it.

Biotonic operate, apparently, out of Belgium, according to some tiny print at the bottom of the last page - but the Biotonic mail is carried in an envelope with with Royal Mail Postage Paid GB stamp, under number HQ12039. So this must be a contract, no?

It is enough to draw in many older people, and it is not fair.

Steer73

For goodness sake - asking royal mail to stop delivering letters because your family member cannot resist the scams is like me asking the bus company to stop bringing the chuggers into my local town centre because I cant resist giving them money.

There has to be a way of stopping these rip-off scammers, but it's not Royal Mails job.

This sort of thing was on Watchdog earlier in the year, and they suggested going to "consumer Direct" who are part of the OFT. Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/consumer_advice/latest_scams_emp.shtml

supermum1958

Steer73 wrote: »

For goodness sake - asking royal mail to stop delivering letters because your family member cannot resist the scams is like me asking the bus company to stop bringing the chuggers into my local town centre because I cant resist giving them money.

There has to be a way of stopping these rip-off scammers, but it's not Royal Mails job.

This sort of thing was on Watchdog earlier in the year, and they suggested going to "consumer Direct" who are part of the OFT. Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/consumer_advice/latest_scams_emp
.shtml

If you read my posts more carefully (and I apologise there is so much, but it is a grievous problem) you will see that I am NOT asking Royal Mail to stop delivering letters. I am asking that all onshore postal redirection services, such as Spring Mail, TNT, UK Mail (and perhaps a Royal Mail subcontractor too judging by the envelopes), be required by law to distinguish between contracts from spammers with false lures of cheques and prizes, and contracts with 'ordinary' junk mail purveyors, when taking on business for redirecting material from businesses abroad.

This does NOT seem unreasonable to me, as they are putting the stuff in the envelopes and so can have a look at it without any opening of letters etc. etc.

It would also be nice to put tighter control round the selling on of names. Much of these victims are chosen because organisations which ought to know better sell lists for money. I believe Reader's Digest is one such, and have heard that until a couple of years ago Age UK did the same....

supermum1958

Steer73 wrote: »

For goodness sake - asking royal mail to stop delivering letters because your family member cannot resist the scams is like me asking the bus company to stop bringing the chuggers into my local town centre because I cant resist giving them money.

There has to be a way of stopping these rip-off scammers, but it's not Royal Mails job.

This sort of thing was on Watchdog earlier in the year, and they suggested going to "consumer Direct" who are part of the OFT. Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/consumer_advice/latest_scams_emp.shtml

By the way, thanks for this link - it's great, hadn't seen it. But not sure Consumer Direct can help much as things are, as the complaint has to come from the victim - which, as I think I have mentioned, is unlikely as they are the ones being conned and scammed......

Might try showing this prog. to my Mum though.

OneYorkshireLass

supermum1958 wrote: »

'Winning Letter! Bank cheque for £15,5000! Your agreement is essential!' Inside, 'In a Few days it will be too late! Mrs. XXXXXX (they have my mother's name printed there) - you have officially been designated the winner (in yellow highlighter)! This is how your prize could be re-allocated..... you don't want this disastrous scenario to happen? They reply today!' .

This is what my Grandad used to get and it's the sole reason he used to reply (he was in the very early stages of dementia). It's absolutely infuriating that people can get away with this.

Rosie1978

This is such a difficult subject and there are too many hurdles to jump over to get it fixed!

It's clear Royal Mail are legally bound to deliver anything posted. It's clear Power of Attorney is expensive and difficult to obtain. It's clear these scammers aren't going to stop.

So maybe it's up to the Government to allow RM to create maybe a Vulnerable People's Postal List where families can apply through a magistrate or county council to have a vulnerable family member put on the list (with all evidence presented etc) and this allows all mail to be redirected to a 'caretaker' who can scan it for scams.

This is an issue that clearly needs to be taken more seriously by the Government - it breaks my heart to think of what you are all going through.

biscit

k66yla wrote: »

Also try registering with PPS - Postal Preference Service
and TPS - Telephone Preference Service

Depressingly few of these threads either start with "Of course we've got him registered with the MPS" or reply "Yes we know about the MPS but that hasn't had an impact on this sort of thing."

http://www.mpsonline.org.uk/mpsr/mps_choosetype.html

Dave_C_2

Yes, RM have a duty to deliver what's posted, but there is a huge difference to me putting an envelope in a post box and a scammer delivering thousands of letters to a RM depot

Shirley this is where RM can take action!

Dave

custardy

Dave_C wrote: »

Yes, RM have a duty to deliver what's posted, but there is a huge difference to me putting an envelope in a post box and a scammer delivering thousands of letters to a RM depot

Shirley this is where RM can take action!

Dave

you would need to lobby your MP
RM have obligations
BTW the MPs in the main wont care as they are desperate to get RM carved up and privitised.
Also you are aware of downstream access mail?
how would you deal with that?