Internship/Exploiting a worker

SarEl

Zazu wrote: »

Ok, so it is legal for a company to employ you as a worker but label it an internship?

It's legal, yes?

For the last time - YES. They didn't offer you a job and you agreed to this.

an9i77

Zazu wrote: »

I have done. And was told "because I said so"

Why should I have to leave a "job" that would be beneficial to me in terms of career aspirations, because the company is not being legit. I want justice! If I leave, they're just gonna have someone else be a mug and take advantage of them too. I don't think that's right or fair to anyone!

Of course it's not right or fair. Lots of things in life (especially in your work life) are not right or fair. That's the way it is. Get over it.

ceridwen

Zazu wrote: »

I have done. And was told "because I said so"

Why should I have to leave a "job" that would be beneficial to me in terms of career aspirations, because the company is not being legit. I want justice! If I leave, they're just gonna have someone else be a mug and take advantage of them too. I don't think that's right or fair to anyone!

The phrase "because I said so" is now in the history books forgawdsake.

My generation (ie pretty late Baby Boomer) were brought up with that phrase ringing in our ears. That is - I recall, as a child, asking my parents "Why?" about decisions of theirs and the reply often being "Because I said so".

These days I watch - with a mixture of astonishment and envy - parents "negotiating" with their children as to whether they are going to do the most basic things.

It was my generation that was brought up with "Because I said so..." and no explanation with it.

Somewhere between "Because I said so.." and the way I see parents pleading with a lot of children these days to behave lies a happy medium. But the days of "Because I said so" have certainly gone...

Sambucus_Nigra

Zazu.

Are you actually getting any worthwhile training or experience out of this?

ceridwen

SarEl wrote: »

Because you do not have a job in any shape or form as we keep telling you! As for whether it is beneficial to you in terms of your career aspirations, refer to my last but one post. You say you know what an internship is. So it is either meeting your expectations of gaining beneficial experience for your career aspirations or it is not. But it is simple - they are not going to change it for you, it isn't going to become a job, and they can enforce any rules they want. So you deceide whether it is for you or not. There is no point bleating about what you want it to be - it isn't, you knew that (or you say you did). If you want NMW then go flip burgers - this place isn't going to pay it to you and you have no right to it.

Well actually the ONLY difference I can see between this being accounted as being a "job" and it not being so is it isnt paid. From every fact stated to date as to how it is - it IS a job by any realistic definition. The only difference is = its being done for free.

My suspicion is that there is no way you are going to stop this firm exploiting you and making it a "two way relationship". I think the only way to deal with this situation probably boils down to "get out". At least that way you won't be acting as a muggins to them and will have your self-respect.

SarEl

ceridwen wrote: »

Well actually the ONLY difference I can see between this being accounted as being a "job" and it not being so is it isnt paid. From every fact stated to date as to how it is - it IS a job by any realistic definition. The only difference is = its being done for free.
.

No. The difference is that the OP agreed to an internship and not a job. Unfortunately, as I have observed before, I do not make the laws. Despite everything, the OP seems to think that this position is important for their chosen career path. And if that is the case them they accept the conditions and get on with it. I am not justifying the conditions - simply stating that this is life and that is how it goes. In law there is a vast difference. But since I don't have time to write an essay in answer you will just have to accept that it is the case because I said so

Annisele

OP - what do you actually want to happen here?

For the sake of argument, let's say SarEl is completely wrong and you are entitled to minimum wage (you're not, but since you seem to think you are I'll go with you for a minute).

DirectGov has some information on enforcing the minimum wage rules (but bear in mind that page is just a summary of the law; it's far too short to be all of it). Do you want to go down the route of raising a grievance / involving HMRC / involving an employment tribunal? If not, then it doesn't really matter whether your "employer" is acting lawfully or not.

If you want to work for your "employer" for the foreseeable future and get paid minimum wage, then I can't see any possible way for that to happen. If you are a "worker", then as soon as you start making noises about NMW your "employer" is going to find a reason to let you go (and unless they're utter idiots they'll make it a reason that has nothing to do with NMW). In that case an employment tribunal might award you some money, but it wouldn't be much.

If you're a volunteer (as it appears that you are), then the same thing will happen; as soon as you start making noises about NMW you'll be asked not to come back tomorrow.

If your motivation is to make sure this doesn't happen in future, then another poster has already given you a link to a campaign website. If you don't like the law, you can try and get it changed - but you can't try and apply the law as you would like to it to be to your "employer"'s policies on pay.

orangeslimes

Zazu wrote: »

Ok, so it is legal for a company to employ you as a worker but label it an internship?

It's legal, yes?

I am not sure of the ins and outs of the law - but in my view it should be illegal.
If you are carrying out a certain job, expected to come in 9am to 5pm with no flexibility for a period of more than a few weeks you should be paid minimum wage in most circumstances.

But your options probably are to a) stop working there
b) carry on being exploited- are you gaining anything from working there?

This is a interesting website: http://internsanonymous.co.uk/

zzzLazyDaisy

Some organisations offer internships. These are unpaid voluntary posts where expenses are re-imbursed but no wages are paid. Think of it as up-market work experience. Having gained experience on the job, the intern is then better placed to apply for paid positions.

The thing is, if you don't like the idea of 'working for nothing' then don't apply.

The OP must have realised what the arrangements were, when s/he applied for the internship, so why moan about it now? Why not just leave?

Spirit_2

Zazu you are in search of rights you haven't got. From your posts it seems you are having difficulty in taking this in.

You are a volunteer.
The firm you are volunteering with have policies you have to comply with concerning telephones.
You believe that this position is important for your career path so you can choose to continue to grow that experience or walk away from it.

The best paid internship programs I have come across were openly recruited to, aimed at Oxbridge students only for during the holidays and were also a dry run for future job offers.

Another excellent internship was entirely unpaid, aimed at recent graduates,but working for a charity that gave candidates a challenging role and opportunities to influence which were impressive experience.

I think you should reflect on how you found your position and why have you now got a mismatch of your expectations to their internship programme? That may be a valuable lesson in itself.