David Cameron writes for MSE on his plans to help on energy bills

Dorset_Knob

My mother-in-law is 90 years old and lives in a village with only electricity and heats her house with night storage heaters. She does not have access to a computer to shop around for cheaper deals. She tried to change suppliers once before and was told that if she did she would lose the afternoon boost she relies on to try and keep warm. Has anyone else come accross this?

magyar

Johnegg wrote: »

Funny how nobody has mentioned the carbon floor price, announced in the Budget, this March. This is a TAX on your energy bill, which the Government are going to squander on wind turbines that function at a third of their stated capacity when they function at all. During the big freeze last year, most wind turbines consumed energy rather than produced it (for de-icing).

Money from carbon floor price just goes to treasury, it doesn't go specifically to wind farms.

I do agree that it's unfortunate most uneducated people do refer to the nameplate capacity of turbines rather than the average output - but it's the output that matters, so the fact that they have a capacity factor of about 30% doesn't make any difference, and isn't 'unexpected'.

The last section isn't true. I've never heard of turbines having de-icing built into them. *edit* just Googled - a few of them do, but it's very rare.

Cobby

Lets suppose everyone insulates and reduces waste energy, and/or installs solar panels..Perhaps we could save 10% of the energy used.
That would mean the energy companies would be selling 10% less energy.
This would mean less profits for the energy companies.
But it wouldnt would it?. The energy companies set the prices and would just increase prices more to protect profit margins

magyar

Cobby wrote: »

Lets suppose everyone insulates and reduces waste energy, and/or installs solar panels..Perhaps we could save 10% of the energy used.
That would mean the energy companies would be selling 10% less energy.
This would mean less profits for the energy companies.
But it wouldnt would it?. The energy companies set the prices and would just increase prices more to protect profit margins

It would mean less absolute profit but profit margin would be the same.

That would of course give us a problem in that those utility companies would not have as much to invest in new generation - but I suppose we'd need less.

Johnegg

magyar wrote: »

Money from carbon floor price just goes to treasury, it doesn't go specifically to wind farms.

I do agree that it's unfortunate most uneducated people do refer to the nameplate capacity of turbines rather than the average output - but it's the output that matters, so the fact that they have a capacity factor of about 30% doesn't make any difference, and isn't 'unexpected'.

The last section isn't true. I've never heard of turbines having de-icing built into them. *edit* just Googled - a few of them do, but it's very rare.

Blade de-icing is not commonly used in Britain, but in colder climates it is necessary. But wind turbines consume power in all sorts of ways: the nacelle has to be heated and dehumidified, the lubricating oil has to be pumped at pressure, the direction and blade pitch has to be changed,and brakes applied when the wind blows too hard for the structure. The stator of some generators has to be magnetised by feeding power through the coils and when the turbine is still, it must be moved every so often to prevent the blades sagging in one direction. So it is perfectly possible for our wind turbines to consume more than they produce as happened over a three-week period last December.
With a cost per unit of power roughly twice that of gas, and more of coal, they represent an abysmal deal for the taxpayer. But we are forced to pay this money through our power bills whether we like it or not.

magyar

Johnegg wrote: »

Blade de-icing is not commonly used in Britain, but in colder climates it is necessary. But wind turbines consume power in all sorts of ways: the nacelle has to be heated and dehumidified, the lubricating oil has to be pumped at pressure, the direction and blade pitch has to be changed,and brakes applied when the wind blows too hard for the structure. The stator of some generators has to be magnetised by feeding power through the coils and when the turbine is still, it must be moved every so often to prevent the blades sagging in one direction. So it is perfectly possible for our wind turbines to consume more than they produce as happened over a three-week period last December.
With a cost per unit of power roughly twice that of gas, and more of coal, they represent an abysmal deal for the taxpayer. But we are forced to pay this money through our power bills whether we like it or not.

I'm not denying any of the above requirements for import power but you claimed it was due to de-icing. I don't know if you have any evidence for your claim; I am not aware import metering of wind turbines is public domain and hence you don't actually know how much was used.

I don't disagree they cost double what gas does - but you don't install wind power because it's cheap, you do so to reduce CO2.

ja9living

Maybe a bit late for the meeting, but how about lobbying for a winter fuel allowance for people with disabilities? If you are at home all day and can't move about much to keep warm you have to put your heating on more than usual. I don't understand why pensioners like my dad gets an allowance for winter fuel when he runs his own company and is not badly off, but people not able to work get no extra help with their winter fuel bills.

shazza71_2

i am on pre-payment meters, my gas and electric last winter was £65 per WEEK, i have 2 teenage sons and my husband has had to stop working for health reasons.. so we now find ourselves on benefits = £109 per week. WTH r we supposed to do, we cant change to direct debit incase they up the price (@ least we know what we use on pre-payment) everyone knows PP costs more yet its the poorest people that have these meters..seems to me like they are exploiting the poorest people.. do the likes of cameron etc actually know what they pay??? prolly not...

magyar

shazza71 wrote: »

i am on pre-payment meters, my gas and electric last winter was £65 per WEEK

That seems incredibly high to me. Even allowing for the fact it's winter, that's higher than I would expect. The fact you're on PPM cannot explain all of that. Ultimately you're just using a lot of power.

Johnegg

magyar wrote: »

I'm not denying any of the above requirements for import power but you claimed it was due to de-icing. I don't know if you have any evidence for your claim; I am not aware import metering of wind turbines is public domain and hence you don't actually know how much was used.

I don't disagree they cost double what gas does - but you don't install wind power because it's cheap, you do so to reduce CO2.

The Renewable Energy Foundation have said that in Oct-Sep 2010, the Uk wind fleet generated at less than 24% of its stated capacity. In December 2010, there was even less wind. Manufacturers try to conceal the figures, but all wind turbines require power for mainaining their systems, which is why they have batteries (rechargeable from the grid) to power them. The point stands, when there is no wind, turbines have to be powered off the grid.

And what is the good of removing CO2? Only a handful of activists and loonies believe it's even necessary. The green religion has been on the slide for quite a while, but it unfortunately prospers in government, and we have to pay for its follies, through an outrageous tax on our energy bills.