MR16s & GU10s

ventureuk

A quick count puts the combined number of these energy hogs at 21 around my home and whilst they are cheap to buy and replace I cringe when they are on knowing how much power they use.

Has anyone switched to LED variants, there are lots advertised on Fleabay and I could replace the lot for £50 at the cheap end of the market but there are very few reviews online.

Thanks to wood burning my electricity bill is now by far the largest part of my energy costs and I think swapping the MR16s and GU10s would be a good start to getting it down.

Have you done it, which did you use, did you use less power ?

Thanks

chris1973

Has anyone switched to LED variants, there are lots advertised on Fleabay and I could replace the lot for £50 at the cheap end of the market but there are very few reviews online.

Its very unlikely you could change all 21 lamps for a £50 budget whilst maintaining quality, long life and a usable output.

LED Lamps are a minefield, most originate cheaply from China and have very exaggerated light output levels and a poor life compared to their claims. The general feedback from those who have changed over, indicates that £5 - £6 is a more realistic 'per lamp' price in return for a usable light output / reliability combination, some would advise that £25 is more realistic for a 'branded' lamp using 'cree' or similar reliable LED chips

I spend a lot of time reading the Electricians forums' and even they struggle with fitting / recommending decent LED replacements to clients and in commercial environment like hotels, offices etc, which proves just how hit and miss the LED lamp industry is.

Thanks to wood burning my electricity bill is now by far the largest part of my energy costs and I think swapping the MR16s and GU10s would be a good start to getting it down.

Any reason why the lights in some of these rooms can't be replaced by conventional table lamps with soft tone low energy lamps of 11W - 15W ratings?. I light my front room with 12W and 16W table lamps giving more than adequate light output for reading etc from just 28W of consumption, this is just reduced to the 12W one when watching TV etc.

I've also done the same in the kitchen, just plugging in a 4ft corner standing floor lamp fitted with a 20W lamp and using the four 8W undershelf lighting under the work units. This gives a consumption of around 52W compared to the 400W recessed halogen lamps.

If you do replace the MR16's be cautious as these use a transformer to drop the voltage to 12v, and some transformers need a minimum load to work correctly and by replacing all lamps with low wattage LED's may not produce the required minimum load, so you may need to keep one or 2 halogen lamps and replace the rest with LED's just to meet the minimum load requirements.

GU10's are direct mains rated and so dont have this potential problem.

wileycat

I've started to replace my GU10's with the Philips 4W ones in Homebase and now Sainsburys (£5ish each).

They work pretty well and do save money, had one fail but returned it for replacement so worth keeping the receipt.

Only got 3 MR16's and haven't seen any decent LED alternatives yet.

raider

I replaced four GU10's about a year ago for 4W LED's. They are used on my landing, so only a narrow space to light up, but were perfect for the job with plenty of clean crisp light and saving loads of £, as they are often on 7-8 hours a day.

I think they were £10 each when I brought, but are £13 now. Ten reviews on Amazon, all 5 stars.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aurora-Bright-Equivalent-Higher-Fluorescent/dp/B004M9XV9C/

elstimpo

ventureuk wrote: »

A quick count puts the combined number of these energy hogs at 21 around my home and whilst they are cheap to buy and replace I cringe when they are on knowing how much power they use.

Has anyone switched to LED variants, there are lots advertised on Fleabay and I could replace the lot for £50 at the cheap end of the market but there are very few reviews online.

Thanks to wood burning my electricity bill is now by far the largest part of my energy costs and I think swapping the MR16s and GU10s would be a good start to getting it down.

Have you done it, which did you use, did you use less power ?

Thanks

I've owned an LED company for about 12 years now and i genuinely feel sorry for consumers as most LED manufacturers are not being accurate with their claims. This makes it's incredibly difficult to buy the right product.

I created a very simple test, that anyone can do at home, which shows how bright a lamp is, the colour of the lamp and how beam angle is absolutely critical.

With the three pictures below, you will notice the huge difference between the three it terms of brightness, colour temp and beam angle yet every one of these claims to perfectly replace a 50w Halogen.

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/cjsphotos/DSC00482.jpg

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/cjsphotos/DSC00479.jpg

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/cjsphotos/DSC00353.jpg

So when the market is filled with products that claim to do the same thing, yet are drastically different from one another, it's nearly impossible to get the right product.

So, here are a few tips to help you choose

1) I wouldn't buy any LED product that didn't come with at least a 4 year warranty. If a company is claiming their product lasts 15 or 20 years, then why is the warranty only 1 or 2 years? The length of the warranty represents the manufacturers and/or retailers confidence in the quality of their product.

2) Heat is an LED's biggest enemy. If an LED bulb does not get rid of the heat it generates effectively, then it's very likely that it will fail well short of it's advertised lifespan. You will notice the LED market is flooded with LED Spotlights with 2,3 or 4 watts. This is because anything with 5w or more presents a real problem in terms of generated heat and nearly all companies do not possess the technology to get rid of that heat.

3) I've only ever seen one LED Spot in 12 years that can properly replace a 50w Halogen. If you are looking to replace a 50w Halogen, then i would say you need at least a 7w lamp with 500 warm white lumens and a beam angle of at least 120 degrees.

4) Nearly all Cheap LED's, particularly from ebay, will be made from the cheapest materials possible. They will come with a 1 year warranty (but you try getting them to enforce it if the product fails). They usually contain no proper heat dissipation at all. All this adds up to a product that can easily fail at anytime and gives the consumer little to no protection. You get what you pay for.

5) Everyone sees light differently. Whats bright to some is dull to others and this is an important aspect to consider. Our eyes adapt very quickly to light. If you replace a 60w Incandescent with an LED that is quite as bright, initially you will think its not bright enough. But if you live with it for a week, you'll soon see your eyes have adapted and the brightness is more than enough to do the job.

6) To get ALL the huge benefits of an LED (huge energy saving potential and incredible lifespan) the product needs to be made with quality raw materials by a quality manufacturer that has cutting edge research and development and extensively tests their products. Despite what some might say, all of this cannot be achieved cheaply.

7) I've been mightily un-impressed with all the LED spotlight products that the big brands have come up with to this point.

8) If you are looking to switch to LED GU10 + MR16 spotlights, then i would seriously recommend investing good money in a quality product, rather than buying something cheap and hoping for the best. Quality LED products will genuinely last 15-20 years so it makes sense to invest in something like this than try your luck with cheaper products.

9) Any LED products bought from a physical bricks and motar store will have had a major mark added to them. There is usually a distributor and then retailer making margin. I'd advise shopping online.

10) Only buy from a reputable retailer who has a money back guarantee should the product you buy not be suitable. Most companies will have this but make sure before buying.

Before anyone suggests i am touting for business, i'd like to make it clear i will not name my company, on the open forum or in private messages. I have also taken the decision that i will not discuss anyone else's products at all. I am not touting for business, i am just trying to help people buy good products and not get ripped off in an industry that is very hard to understand.

I'd be happy to answer any general questions anyone has about LED lighting on the open forum or through private messages.

Thanks

ventureuk

elstimpo

Thank you for a considered, educated and informative post, as a business owner your reply shows excellent customer service and I'd be happy if you would PM me with your company details.

I run a variety of led lights on my bikes and would have thought that the tech of SSC and CREE would have filtered down to home lighting at affordable prices by now.

There must be big energy savings to be had in this area of spot/feature/down lighting maybe tech just hasn't advanced quickly enough.

Thank you for all your informative replies.

alexlyne

I have replaced 90% of my home with LEDs now, a mix of gu10s and SES spots. I have bought most off ebay outlets (yes they say 50W but they aren't but as said before on landings and hallways they are perfect (put this way, I have 3x spot clusters, so even if the bulbs are only 35W equivalent then I still get around 100W equiv overall). These bulbs were £3-4 each.
I also bought some posh gu10s off a retail site - they were £12 but have nice metal cases which look better in the lounge where they are exposed (white plastic ones will look bad).
Unless I'm looking in the wrong place, shops like b&q only had 1.2w leds, equivalent to 10W or something stupid...

I did a photo test like elstimpo, comparing cheap and more expensive led spots against halogen - and in a hallway (at least) the leds gave a much more even light, though the colour was a bit (but not much) cooler. We have had them around the house for a good while now and are more than used to the colour.

grizzly1911

ventureuk wrote: »

elstimpo



I run a variety of led lights on my bikes and would have thought that the tech of SSC and CREE would have filtered down to home lighting at affordable prices by now.

There must be big energy savings to be had in this area of spot/feature/down lighting maybe tech just hasn't advanced quickly enough.

.

Why would they want to bring prices down at this time whilst everyone is looking to switch?

If they do last as promised then you won't be changing them any time soon unlike halogen or tungsten.

CREE do supply home/spot/feature lighting at a price - the technology is there and no doubt improving.

Do not touch the cheap stuff on fleabay I speak from experience. Also take care what you buy the cool white is too clinical for general lighting IMO, better suited to feature lighting, warm white is softer.

elstimpo

If you were to buy, twenty LED Spotlights around the £35 mark each and compared the total running costs between them and twenty standard 50w Halogens, for usage of 8 hours per day, 365 days per year at 13p per k/w, then for the same cost as running the halogens for 5 years, you could run the LED's for 20 years.

Electricity prices are seemingly only going up and with the LED's you have no time wasted on maintenance, replacing failed bulbs etc.

If you apply a medium to long term plan for you're lighting, you will save yourself a lot of money.

flyingscotno1

Funny this should pop up. I have too many halogen spotlights throughout the house too, and we're trying to cut down on the power bill which we feel is far too high.

My major problem is trust. I'm sure they are a lot of good LEDs out there but there is probably a lot of crap on eBay. Much like the early days of CFL energy savers when there were good ones which were expensive and cheap ones which were dull, took forever to start and ruined the reputation of them for some years.

Anyway, I purchased for £9 a bulb some warm white LED GU10s out of IKEA the other day. Only 190 Lumens, but I have found it to be just not bright enough for kitchen, but suitable for hall and bedroom. They've gone in the bedroom and are excellent.

My theory is to reduce the wattage as much as possible. I'm going to change the MR16s to 10W versions until I investigate possible electronic transformer issues with LEDs. Thinking of replacing the E27 R63 in bathroom with 28W Halogens- they aren't on for much length and an IKEA CFL didn't work in it. Thinking of this-
http://www.simplyled.co.uk/GU10-Dimmable-High-Power-LED-20-piece-SMD-5050-320-Lumens-50-watts-equiv_AWMR4.aspx?1
for replacing the kitchen GU10s. Seem bright and a UK based supplier. Any thoughts?

elstimpo

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

Funny this should pop up. I have too many halogen spotlights throughout the house too, and we're trying to cut down on the power bill which we feel is far too high.

My major problem is trust. I'm sure they are a lot of good LEDs out there but there is probably a lot of crap on eBay. Much like the early days of CFL energy savers when there were good ones which were expensive and cheap ones which were dull, took forever to start and ruined the reputation of them for some years.

Anyway, I purchased for £9 a bulb some warm white LED GU10s out of IKEA the other day. Only 190 Lumens, but I have found it to be just not bright enough for kitchen, but suitable for hall and bedroom. They've gone in the bedroom and are excellent.

My theory is to reduce the wattage as much as possible. I'm going to change the MR16s to 10W versions until I investigate possible electronic transformer issues with LEDs. Thinking of replacing the E27 R63 in bathroom with 28W Halogens- they aren't on for much length and an IKEA CFL didn't work in it. Thinking of this-
http://www.simplyled.co.uk/GU10-Dimmable-High-Power-LED-20-piece-SMD-5050-320-Lumens-50-watts-equiv_AWMR4.aspx?1
for replacing the kitchen GU10s. Seem bright and a UK based supplier. Any thoughts?

All i can say is that 320 lumens is not going to replace a 50w Halogen. Won't get anywhere near.