Structural Engineers Report -Recommended - What if the vendor offers to pay for?

kingstreet

Jamiemac wrote: »

What was the outcome here OP?

norbet hasn't been around since December, but this was a later post in another thread;-

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=49348279&postcount=126

Hi SF, just noticed your posts and it sounds like you've had a similar experience what we encountered, although we pulled out of the purchase when we considered the matter of insurance.

Our purchase went something like this:

- offer accepted
- valuation and survey done(full buildings, was only a bit more than the homebuyers report and place was in need of many repairs)
- valuation came back with comments noting signs of structural movement – recommended structural engineers report
- rest of survey came back with comments such as “appears to have suffered subsidence” and “cannot ascertain if non-progressive without further investigation”
- at this point we were ready to walk but the agent suggested the vendors would pay for the structural report (to be done on our behalf).
- we agreed, but clearly stated this was not a commitment to purchase.
- structural report done, said movement was not due to subsidence, but “thermal expansion” – we actually met the engineer onsite and he explained it was due to differences in building materials, that it wasn’t subsidence and that had the place been decorated in the last 10 years or so the cracks (internal) would probably have gone un-noticed.
- engineers report went back to our lender who agreed to the mortgage offer with no conditions (I understand in your case you had a £5k retention?)
- we then thought about insurance and what about when we come to sell the property?
- asked the lender who would also be our insurer (at least at the onset) about buildings insurance and they said we’d need to send copies of the reports to their underwriters
- this concerned us and we decided to pull out from the sale. The property, although in a nice area, needed much work (we only got 10k off the asking) and we were worried about being limited in terms of insurance and our position come the day we come to sell on.
- we’ve yet to hear back from the insurance underwriters (this was 4 weeks ago)

We’re now back to square one, having paid out on arrangement fees and surveys, but it sounds like we dodged a bullet to some degree as you’re now finding the insurance a hurdle? I take what others have said about subsidence not being a concern in certain areas (where it’s accepted and the postcode is more important) but we as nervous FTB’s thought it was a risk we were unwilling to take.

propertyman

Ok for readers seeking advice

Valuations Normally carried out by a chartered surveyor designated MRICS or FRICS

Home condition and Full Surveys carried out by the above occasionally by a chartered valuation surveyor, or more commonly in the latter by a chartered building surveyor ( same designations - they have the same core training but different specialisations).

When dealing with movement issues, some chartered building surveyors often specialise in such reports, and may call on a Structural engineer for a specific issue, or the Engineer can be appointed.

On balance it is often better to instruct the Engineer with a designation of M or F IStructE, and then if there is an issue which affects value re-consult the surveyor.

In the OP's case if a vendor offers to pay then you you should instruct the engineer, as they are therefore reporting & advising you, and liable to you, not the vendor.

Jamiemac

Thanks for providing an update. It appears insurance and resale normally put most people off. We are in a similar position in that the building survey has identified structural movement. It could be historic but deep down I don't think it makes any difference. If the vendors will pay for a drain survey and structural engineer's report (to be done on our behalf), which confirms the movement is historic due to escape of water (maybe a drain has been repaired in the past?) then I will still consider the purchase but would be expecting a hefty discount on our current offer. Otherwise we will walk away, although I think I already know in my heart that the house is no longer the one for us (the ability to resell in a few years is an important factor). Such a shame as the house is probably solid as a rock.

propertyman

Jamiemac wrote: »

If the vendors will pay for a drain survey and structural engineer's report (to be done on our behalf), which confirms the movement is historic due to escape of water (maybe a drain has been repaired in the past?) t.

I cannot stress it strongly enough get quotes or the engineers inspection and drain surveys, agree the cost with vendor and YOU instruct them. See my last post.

By all means make it clear that you will give the vendors a full copy on receipt.

Jamiemac

Thanks for reiterating - it's possibly something I would not have insisted upon but I can see the flaws in not instructing your own reports. By "on our behalf" I meant that they would be instructed by us. If they refuse then we'll be pulling out.

norbet

Hi all, yes thanks for the re-post Kingstreet, that outlined our situation and yes propertyman is correct. in our case we made sure that the structural engineer was instructed by and reporting to us. We agreed that the vendors would be given a full copy of the report, but it was in our names.
Unfortunately (for all concerned) we had to pull out for the simple reason that buildings insurance was a problem and that the insurers (who we asked for a qoute) referred the matter to their underwriters and never actually came back to us with an answer.

We shared Jamiemac's view in that the house was probably fine, but where there's doubt and uncertainty we just couldn't risk it.

parallellines

I did organised a structural survey once as vendor, this was after the sale had fallen through once and before there were new buyers on the scene. The structural engineers were happy for me to commission the work and for a flat payment from buyer ( I've forgotten - it was either £50 or £100 ) would agree that buyer could rely on it legelly even though I had commissioned the work.