people driving sooooo slow cos they dont know the speed limit!

Idiophreak

lindopski wrote: »

We can also all look at a road and think that we know that we can go faster than 30 on this, however there is always the unknown risk.
there could be a cyclist around the next bend lying on the ground as he/she has fallen over - you see him last minute and swerve into the little kid that has just ran out to retrieve his ball or her dolly. The unknown element is what will throw you, or more likely you them as you hit them.

There's no "unknown" risk. There's just risk - and that falls into two categories: Controllable risk and uncontrollable risk.

Controllable risk: The cyclist led on the ground isn't an "unknown" risk. It's an "obvious" risk - and you should always drive as if there *is* a cyclist led on the ground round the next bend. You achieve this by driving slow enough to stop in the space you can see.

Kids running into the road: You can see that you're entering a build up area where children may be playing street-side. You perceive the hazard and adjust your speed / direction accordingly. You should always drive as if a little girl *will* run out.

There are also situations in which you can't control the risk itself - but can control the consequences. For instance, a dear jumps out. Unavoidable. However, if you hit the thing at 30, you're going to be a lot better off than if you hit it at 90.

Uncontrollable risk:
Your car might be hit by a meteor.
Your car might be hit by a drunk driver coming straight out from a junction at 90mph.

These are out of your hands. No matter how fast you're going, they're unavoidable. Nothing you do will make any difference to the outcome.

Uncontrollable risk is just a fact of driving, nay a fact of life. Controllable risk you factor in as you drive and make informed decisions on how fast to drive.

Idiophreak

fivetide wrote: »

No we are talking about speeding in 30mph limits. Either you obey the law or you don't. Again, you can't pick and choose when and where to obey.

Of course I can. In fact, I do.

I've not been speaking about "speeding in 30mph limits" at any point. Please point me to where I've mentioned that?

My points have all been made re: speeding in "inappropriate" 30mph speed limits which *do* exists in this country for a myriad of reasons (why can't you grasp this?)

Not even the people who set the speed limits believe they're set purely for reasons of safety - so why do you?

Lum

While I may not necessarily agree with everything Idiophreak has posted, the post #92 is spot on.

Uncontrollable risk is something you just have to accept when you get behind a wheel. Using the deer example I accept that there is a small chance that I may hit one while doing 90 and it's going to be very painful and expensive, however the risk/reward ratio for this is acceptable to me. In situations where it's kids rather than deer the risk/reward ratio is very much unacceptable and I drive accordingly.

lindopski_2

Sadly most drivers dont think about the risks when they drive or at least forget about them when it comes to the 30 limit.

I live on a the main road on a hill section known locally as the hill - clever locals around here, step out of my door small path about 3ft ish wide then its the road, its the same on the opposite side except in about 1920 when the road was widened my side lost the wall in front of the house and they didnt. so they have small walled garden then the 3ft path then the road.
Now on the other side of the road (walled garden side) they park their cars outside the house. The cars are usually half on the path and half on the road but it means that 'the hill' is generally blocked up. Its a 30 limit but when the cars at the bottom of the hill see a gap they race up the hill at speeds approaching 50, I know as I have to cross this road to get to and from my car which I park in a side street.
No one lets you across and you have to bomb it across to avoid the 50mph gang who speed up!! when they see you cross.
coming down the hill is the same, though the cars are usually only doing about 40 downhill so you can gauge a good time to run for it.
The walled houses and the side streets are heaving with children, the corner of the side street has 30 kids at least outside playing rounders or something when I park up every day at about 6pm.
Most of these kids are under 10, some under 5 - the problem is that the kids want to cross the road too, to get to the chippy or their mates houses and stand between the parked cars waiting for a gap.
All they have to do is misjudge it and they are going to get smacked at speeds between 40-50 (in the 30 limit mind).
I know the risk, and everyone driving daily up and down 'the hill' knows the risk but almost every car going up and down it flaunts the limit widely.
I have lived there 15 years and have only ever seen one child get hit, is that a good thing or a terrible thing - I dont know.

The kid didnt make it.

I drive up the hill very slowly and watch every nook and cranny that I know the kids lurk.

Tinks74

Lum wrote: »

My big worry, given the current message of blind obedience to the speed limit, is the number of drivers who spend more time looking at their speedo than the road.

This is something I do agree with.

fivetide

Idiophreak wrote: »

Your car might be hit by a drunk driver coming straight out from a junction at 90mph.

These are out of your hands. No matter how fast you're going, they're unavoidable. Nothing you do will make any difference to the outcome.

.

WRONG

Are you saying that if you hit them at 30, 40 or 50 there would be no difference?

Of course there would!

As for lum's Deer. I bet this driver wishes he'd been going slower

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/burlington_county_times_news/medford-college-student-killed-after-vehicle-hits-deer/article_9dada5b6-d945-51e1-86ab-d0c80d9d82ed.html

As for not all limits being set for safety - maybe that is potentially true but if it is due to noise then it is because there are houses nearby etc so you can pull it all back to safety.

Simple summary - I do not think you can pick and choose which laws and when and where you break them.

You seem to think it isn't an issue. I'm sure you'd have a different attitude to a Police Officer at the side of the road but hey, this is the internet and you can act like the big guy on here right?

So I'm afraid I can't agree with you as there would be no point in us both being wrong.

5t.

EDIT for Idiophreak.

You made that specific example in response to lindopski. So the converstion started about 30 limits in general. You picked a specific example, but it did not start or define the conversation:

The main limit however that gets broken by almost everyone and gets right up my nose is the 30 limit. It truly is 30 for a reason !!

Lum

@Lindopski I think I know the kind of hill you mean, plenty of villages like that in Wales.

Sounds like one of the few situations where a speed camera might actually be beneficial. Then again a bypass would be even better if this is a major through route.

Idiophreak

fivetide wrote: »

WRONG

Are you saying that if you hit them at 30, 40 or 50 there would be no difference?

What? Being hit side on by a driver at 90mph? I guess there would be a small difference as to how many times your car rolled after you'd been killed instantly...But I don't suppose it would make much of a difference to you in the grand scheme of things...

fivetide wrote: »

As for not all limits being set for safety - maybe that is potentially true but if it is due to noise then it is because there are houses nearby etc so you can pull it all back to safety.

I drive a section of road every day. There's a 50mph speed limit to save the residents from the noise of passing lorries. There's a concrete wall between the road and the houses, which are on a different level anyway. So how does this relate to safety exactly?

fivetide wrote: »

You seem to think it isn't an issue. I'm sure you'd have a different attitude to a Police Officer at the side of the road but hey, this is the internet and you can act like the big guy on here right?

You're getting very confused. I'm not a big guy, I'm not being macho about this. It's perfectly safe to drive a little over the speed limit in some places, so I do it. That's all.

FWIW, I *did* have a polite conversation with the instructor at the speed awareness course I attended on the subject. Apparently I'm a "big guy" in real life too.

Lum

fivetide wrote: »

As for not all limits being set for safety - maybe that is potentially true but if it is due to noise then it is because there are houses nearby etc so you can pull it all back to safety.

A lot of them are being set for "being seen to be doing something". A very popular activity for politicians. We have spent so long now telling people that speed is the be all and end all of road safety and that speed cameras are our lord and saviour sent to us by Jesus to save us that people actually believe it.

This means that when people are unfortunate enough to lose a friend or relative in an RTA they start demanding lower limits and cameras when what they should really be demanding is, say, a crackdown on drunk driving, or for someone to trim the hedges alongside the bend, or for a junction to be improved by adding traffic lights or a flyover with grade separated sliproads, or just good old fashioned driver education since, in the case of the hedges or junction, a competent driver would have slowed down even without a camera.

What we get instead is an unnecessarily low limit applied to a 4 mile stretch of road that contains only one hazard. A side effect of this is that many drivers will come to the conclusion that the limit is unnecessarily low, choose to ignore it, and they will continue to ignore it even for the 300 feet or so where a lower speed is actually necessary.

abbecer

Oooooh I love this thread!! Chance to vent!! I am probably one of the most tolerant drivers you will ever meet, I don't mind being stuck behind a learner driver, tractor or whatever. I expect people to slow down if it's bad driving conditions and have never ever tried to intimidate someone into speeding up. But what really gets my goat is when someone drives much slower than the road or weather conditions permit. I have a bypass near me which is about 2 mile long straight open road. It's 60mph and very clearly signed to indicate this. So why do some people still insist on driving 30/40 down it!!! If you are not comfortable driving at these speeds when safe to do so get off the sodding road!! Don't get me started on Sunday drivers!!