benefits and study

wiccawilow

Hi there,

This is my first time posting in here but I need some help.

Does anyone know how many hours a person can study before losing Income Support and Carers Allowance?

I have been looking after my sister since 2008 and before that both my mother and sister but now would like to continue my education, before it's too late! (I'm 29 :P) But I don't want to risk having no money in order to do so.

I started studying with the OU, but due to personal circumstances I had to withdraw from the course I was on and now they refuse to give me any financial assistance as I've been told I wouldn't finish my degree in the time they give, but I could join our local college that runs university courses. The course would be 2 days a week, 9 til 4 and I would be entitled to grants and loans from that, but will they result in loss of my benefits?

I feel terrible asking, but anyone in my situation I'm sure will understand my caution and apprehension.

Any advice will be greatly received Thank you, Emma

Lady_gaga

I don't know for definate but the usual rule of thumb is if you are entitled to funding then you would lose your benefits

kingfisherblue

I think the rules are slightly different if you receive Carer's Allowance. You can only study on a part time course, but many full time courses for university are only two days a week, so first you need to check the definition of the course with the university.

I studied part time for my foundation degree, and later topped it up to an Honours degree, whilst claiming Income Support and Carer's Allowance - I care for my disabled son.

My foundation degree took three years instead of two and I was in university for 4-6 hours a week, plus reading, assignments, etc at home. For the top up, I was in university for eight hours a week, plus home tasks and it took two years instead of one. So altogether, it took five years instead of three. Each year, I had to apply to the Student Awards dep[artment of my local council. I was awarded full course costs (paid directly to the university) and I also received a £250, non-repayable grant, which was to pay towards books, travel expenses, and childcare. I was eligibole to apply for the hardship fund (now called Access to Learning Fund), but did not need to do this, as my benefits were still paid.

I bought second hand books where possible, or borrowed them from the university library. As my course was education based, I also joined www.tes.co.uk and bought a few books from posters on that site.

I think the biggest expense to pay at one time would have been the hire of gown and mortar board for my graduations - travel probably cost more overall, but as it was paid over a period of time, it wasn't such an issue.

I would recommend looking at part time courses at university - local colleges often offer some university courses, but many are for the first year only and require you to travel to the university itself for the second year. Contact Student Awards at your local council and get some advice from them. Remember to inform the Carer's Allowance Unit and the Job Centre if you start a course.

ETA, I started my foundation degree when I was 35 and immediately followed it with the top up. I graduated two years ago with a 2:1 at the age of 40.

Oldernotwiser

kingfisherblue wrote: »

I think the rules are slightly different if you receive Carer's Allowance. You can only study on a part time course, but many full time courses for university are only two days a week, so first you need to check the definition of the course with the university. .

If the course is eligible for grants and loans then it must, by definition, be full time.

jetplane

You can receive Carers Allowance and study up to 21 hours of supervised study. This is the threshold for full time study and Carers Allowance. Your hours will be less than this and you keep the Income Support as you receive Carers Allowance and are a part time student.

MrsManda

jetplane wrote: »

You can receive Carers Allowance and study up to 21 hours of supervised study. This is the threshold for full time study and carers Allowance.

This isn't quite true. If your course is designated as Full Time by the college/university then it is counted as being Full Time for Carer's Allowance regardless of how many hours of supervised study the student has and therefore the student is ineligible for CA.

If the course is designated Part Time by the college/university BUT exceeds 21 hours of supervised study it is also counted as Full Time study for Carer's Allowance.

As ONW says, eligibility for grants/loans is likely to mean that the course is designated Full Time and therefore CA cannot be claimed at the same time.

Education

You cannot get Carer's Allowance if you are on a course of full-time education, or you are on holiday from full-time education.
Full-time education means a course which is described as full-time by the educational establishment providing it. If the educational establishment describes the course as part-time, but attendance is required for 21 hours or more each week, it will be treated as full-time.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Caringforsomeone/DG_10012525

Oldernotwiser

And going on to the second part of the OP's question - grants and loans will be taken into account when assessing means tested benefits like IS, although the student shouldn't be any worse off.

jetplane

This isn't quite true. If your course is designated as Full Time by the college/university then it is counted as being Full Time for Carer's Allowance regardless of how many hours of supervised study the student has and therefore the student is ineligible for CA.

I was answering the OP's query and 2 days 9-4 is not going to be full time. However it is my understanding that it is true. Direct.gov is information whereas the decision makers Guide makes reads

[FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times][FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Full-time education [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]60068 [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]If it is clear that a person is in fact receiving FTE[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]the DM does not have to consider whether the claimant is treated as receiving FTE[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]2[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]. If the course on which the claimant is enrolled is a F/T university course there is a presumption that the claimant is in FTE[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]3[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times, serif]1 SS CB Act 92, s 70(3); 2 SS (ICA) Regs, reg 5; 3 CA SSWP v Amanda Deane {2010} EWCA Civ 699 [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]60069 [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]However there can be exceptions to the presumption in DMG 60068[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif] When a student claims and provides evidence that they have already completed parts of the course they should provide proof from the educational establishment that they have [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]been granted exemption. For example, the claimant may have exemptions from part of the course because they [/FONT][/FONT]

1. [FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]do not have to undertake all the modules [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]or [/FONT]
2. [FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]have availed themselves of an “Accreditation of Prior Learning”[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]2[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT]

[FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Therefore, where the claimant is enrolled on a F/T university course but states they study P/T, the DM should consider whether there is an exception to the presumption that they are in FTE. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note: [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cases of doubt should be sent to DMA Leeds for advice. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times, serif]1 SSWP v Amanda Deane [2010] EWCA Civ 699; 2 SSWP v ZC(CA) [2011] UKUT 2 (AAC) [/FONT]

• • [FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times]Example 1 [/FONT]

• • 
    
    [FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica]Linda attends a course at a local college to improve her prospects for work. Although when enquiries are made the college state that the course is F/T, the actual number of hours of attendance at college is only 18 hours per week. There is no expectation from the college that the claimant should be completing any private study outside of the college attendance. This is confirmed by the claimant. The DM looks at the relevant legislation for FTE first and decides that this does not apply. Therefore the further regulations on the calculation of the number of hours have to be considered. As the course is less than 21 hours per week the claimant is entitled to CA.[/FONT]

And going on to the second part of the OP's question - grants and loans will be taken into account when assessing means tested benefits like IS, although the student shouldn't be any worse off.

As I don't know the nature of the grants or loans I can't comment other than to say some if not all may be ignored.

Oldernotwiser

jetplane wrote: »

I was answering the OP's query and 2 days 9-4 is not going to be full time. However it is my understanding that it is true. Direct.gov is information whereas the decision makers Guide makes reads

[FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times][FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Full-time education [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]60068 [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]If it is clear that a person is in fact receiving FTE[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]1 [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]the DM does not have to consider whether the claimant is treated as receiving FTE[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]2[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]. If the course on which the claimant is enrolled is a F/T university course there is a presumption that the claimant is in FTE[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]3[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times, serif]1 SS CB Act 92, s 70(3); 2 SS (ICA) Regs, reg 5; 3 CA SSWP v Amanda Deane {2010} EWCA Civ 699 [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]60069 [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]However there can be exceptions to the presumption in DMG 60068[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif] When a student claims and provides evidence that they have already completed parts of the course they should provide proof from the educational establishment that they have [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]been granted exemption. For example, the claimant may have exemptions from part of the course because they [/FONT][/FONT]

1. [FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]do not have to undertake all the modules [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]or [/FONT]
2. [FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]have availed themselves of an “Accreditation of Prior Learning”[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]2[/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT]

[FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Therefore, where the claimant is enrolled on a F/T university course but states they study P/T, the DM should consider whether there is an exception to the presumption that they are in FTE. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=KLBCB O+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note: [/FONT][FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cases of doubt should be sent to DMA Leeds for advice. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times, serif]1 SSWP v Amanda Deane [2010] EWCA Civ 699; 2 SSWP v ZC(CA) [2011] UKUT 2 (AAC) [/FONT]

• • [FONT=KLBCD A+ Times, Times]Example 1 [/FONT]

• • 
    
    [FONT=KLBCB P+ Helvetica, Helvetica]Linda attends a course at a local college to improve her prospects for work. Although when enquiries are made the college state that the course is F/T, the actual number of hours of attendance at college is only 18 hours per week. There is no expectation from the college that the claimant should be completing any private study outside of the college attendance. This is confirmed by the claimant. The DM looks at the relevant legislation for FTE first and decides that this does not apply. Therefore the further regulations on the calculation of the number of hours have to be considered. As the course is less than 21 hours per week the claimant is entitled to CA.[/FONT]

As I don't know the nature of the grants or loans I can't comment other than to say some if not all may be ignored.

I'm sorry but your interpretation of this is wrong. Many FT degree level courses have only 4/6 hours a week and no FT student can claim CA. If the OP is just topping up with a couple of modules then it may be possible but I read the post as that she's doing a full year at least. Perhaps she could clarify?

Also, only a very small amount of the student loan and grant is ignored for means tested benefits purposes if the student is claiming them because of disability or because s/e is a lone parent.

However re- reading the OP's post it sounds as if she's been claiming IS because she's a carer so, in this case, she's ineligible to claim any benefits at all.

jetplane

OK I don't want to hijack the OP so we will have to differ on the interpretation. The law is all about interpretation which is probably why so many cases end up in Appeals / Tribunals.

Oldernotwiser

jetplane wrote: »

OK I don't want to hijack the OP so we will have to differ on the interpretation. The law is all about interpretation which is probably why so many cases end up in Appeals / Tribunals.

If she's a full time student then she isn't eligible for benefits unless she's disabled or a lone parent; there's no appealing this.

I don't think that either of us are high jacking the OP's thread as we're both answering her question.