Completely irresponsible tradesmen - house burgled

suisidevw

Morning all,

Just a little bit of advice on an issue my brother is in the middle of at present. In short, his wife and him have been renovating a property and have had full woodworm treatment carried out. Those completing the work left the property and left a window open. They were instructed to secure, lock up and send my brother the keys. The house was subsequently burgled, and police could find no forced entry, confirming they gained entry through the window left open, and a neighbour and other tradesmen noted that the window was opened by the woodworm tradesmen. Below is the correspondence they have had. The unprofessionalism in not only writing a proper response but also denying all liability is relatively shocking. Any thoughts on the route he should go down now in attempting to get back the value of what was stolen from the irresponsibles tradesmen? Their response is in red.

Thanks


Hi Mike,

Thanks for your time yesterday looking into what has happened. We've had the police come and visit a number of times to assess the situation and also visit all the neighbours to request any vital information be brought forward. The plasterer who arrived at the scene first on Monday morning has given a statement that both front and back doors were open which I have previously explained to you. In addition he has stated that an upstairs large bedroom window was left open upon arrival and in addition the kitchen window was left wide open. Further to the aforementioned, our next door neighbour has confirmed that on Sunday morning they noticed the kitchen window wide open and no one had been at the property between your company's visit on Saturday and the builder and plasterer starting work on Monday morning.

As the police are now involved they are likely to have their own questions to ask of your men/company, is there anyone in particular I should direct them to or would that be yourself who will be dealing with this?

You mentioned the trustworthiness of out tradesmen whilst on the phone the other day but now I've had time to think about it, only our builder who we trust 100% has had keys to the property and those are for the front doors both of which remained completely locked upon arrival on Monday morning. He's been with us 3 weeks and has plenty more work to be doing so aside from being very honest and our family knowing him personally, it would not be in his best interests to take anything from the property.

If you could let me know who the first point of contact for the police will be then that would be much appreciated, if you need to contact me my telephone number is xxxxxxxxxx.

Thanks again for your time and as before, please copy any response to xxxxxxxxx


Dear Mr x

Thanks for the E-mail.

I would of course be happy to co-operate with the Police and make available any members of our staff, that the Police wish to speak with.

Please use me as your point of contact.

Best regards

Michael Conway



Hi Mike,
I realised I hadn't let you know where we are at with the situation. The Police have been round a number of times and are still working on the investigation so have no verdict as yet. They have advised that CID were unable to find any concrete evidence or signs of forced entry. Naturally we are still very unhappy that the house was left unsecured and will be in touch as soon as the police have closed the report with how we wish to proceed.

I'll be in touch soon,


Hi Mike,

So as to update you, the police have now closed the case in terms of finding a suspect for the theft itself, due to insufficient forensic evidence and no forced entry being found. If entry to the property had been forced, we would have understood that the burglary would have had nothing to do with your company. Unfortunately as no forced entry was found and the police have advised that a lock has not been picked, we can only come to the conclusion that once the work was completed by your company on the Saturday, the property was not left secure. Naturally you will have a statutory duty of care to your customers to leave properties secure and we feel these standards have not been met and as a result we have suffered an unnecessary burglary, which has cost us both financially and on a personal level too. Our next door neighbour has confirmed that our Kitchen window was wide open on the morning after your company carried out the work, which was before the burglary took place. This window is visible from the road which means anyone walking by could have seen the property was unsecured and unfortunately the robbery took place in the early hours of Monday morning. Our builder made note that there was a number of tall packages being stored in the kitchen which had blocked view of the window from inside the house. Therefore it may have been easy to miss upon locking up that the kitchen window was left open but nonetheless, it is not acceptable.

Having sought advice from the citizens advice bureau, I'm making contact to see how you see the circumstances yourself and to see how you feel we should proceed? The monetary value of the stolen items was approximately £1200 which we do not wish to have to claim on our own insurance for, if they were even to accept a claim in these circumstances. If things cannot be sorted simply then could you advise me of any arbitration process you may have with your trade body? Failing that, we will need to take further action.

Thanks for your patience with this, I hope you understand that the police do take their time over these cases.

Both my wife and I work during the day so will not be able to speak during working hours, I will however be contactable via e-mail. If you wish to speak on the telephone then perhaps we can arrange a time for a Saturday or an early evening.

I look forward to hearing back from you shortly,

Many thanks for your time,



Dear Sirs,

I am forwarding you the below correspondence I have had with Mike from your company as he has failed to respond to two of my e-mails over the past fortnight and I wish for an answer. To cut a long story short, work was carried out at our property in August, the team carrying out the work failed to lock the property up securely and as a result we were burgled the next day. All the necessary details should be included in the below e-mail conversation, if you need anything clarified then just let me know.

Naturally I am extremely unhappy for the very poor communication regarding this matter, the loss of our belongings and also for the stress this has caused in sorting this out and the emotional strain it has put on us knowing that a burglar has been inside our house.

Given the severity of what has happened I urge you to respond as soon as possible.



Thank you for your e-mail, I have discussed the matter with Mr Conway, whom I believe spoke to you at great length regarding the matter. We understand that this must have been indeed very stressful and upsetting for you, however as you know we secured the premises and as such deign any liability in this matter, we therefore are unable to assist you any further in the regrettable matter.


Dear Sirs,

I can't say I was at all pleased in receiving your unprofessional and poorly written dismissal of this situation. Mr Conway and I spoke only on the day of the burglary and this could hardly be described as "at great length". Naturally after hearing of the burglary, as the last to be in charge of securing the property, your company were my first point of contact. Mr Conway and I spoke and he then immediately talked to his team who were at the property last. Upon arriving at the property the front and back doors were found open so my question to Mr Conway at the time was "did your team lock up all the doors upon leaving the property?" Mr Conway answered with great certainty and I genuinely believe that his team did in fact secure all the doors properly. I can only presume from your dismissing response that this is what you have based your answer on. It is clear that you have no interest in further facts that may put your company in the wrong, as if you did, your questions would have either been raised in the below response or Mr Conway would have responded to even one of my e-mails keeping him up to date with the police investigation and the progress of the situation. Instead it appears that you are merely trying to sweep this issue under the carpet.

As it happens, throughout the lengthy police investigation, a number of witnesses have come forward with pieces of information that do in fact bring into question the thoroughness and integrity of your workers. One of the first people to enter the property after the burglary took place has stated to the police that both an upstairs window and more importantly the window in the kitchen were wide open upon arriving at the property. He noted that packages being stored in the kitchen were obscuring the view of the window from inside the property and it could have been easily missed upon leaving and checking that the property was secured. The Police also spoke to nearby neighbours to gauge if they had seen any activity at the house or any evidence that might help piece the things together and indeed our next door neighbour also noted that soon after your company had locked up and vacated our property, the kitchen window was seen wide open. They know this as they can see the window clearly from their house. The maths are simple, your team were asked to secure the property - soon after they had left, the property was seen clearly unsecured. As the open window was visible from the road it would have been very easy for someone to notice a lack of activity at the property as we were away for the weekend, see the open window and come and carry out the burglary.

Had I arrived at the house to find the window wide open but all our belongings still within, I would have naturally been very disappointed that our house had been left at risk and would more than likely have given you a wrap on the knuckles for it but as you know the situation is far worsened by the fact that your teams inability to secure our premises has resulted in a loss of belongs to both us and our workmen and also the stress and emotional upset of knowing someone was in our property without our permission. All this could have been avoided had you met your duty of care to make sure our property was left secured. Again had there been evidence of breaking and entering at the property, we could safely assume that it had little to do with your company. However as there is no sign of breaking and entering on the police report and we have witness statements that windows were left open, it is plain to see that are house was left unsecured by your company.

You may think as the police are no longer involved directly in the case, that you have nothing to worry about. The thing is, the police's case only relates to the crime that was committed (the entry to our property without permission and the theft of our belongings) and does not bring into question why it was allowed to take place. The police have therefore advised me to seek legal advice which I have done and the advice I have been given is to give you the chance to sort this out directly before taking things further, which I have every right and intention to do.

Perhaps I have been too polite in my approach so far, however I can assure you that my wife and I are absolutely furious with what has happened and your negation to accept any liability or even discuss the situation further only adds insult to injury. The situation and the way it has been dealt with is a very bad advertisement for your company and friends and family of ours are equally appalled. I can assure you that we will do everything in our power to seek justice for what has happened and make well known the failings that have caused this awful scenario. Perhaps it's time to take this situation more seriously, own up and sort this out sensibly before time and money are spent taking this further.

If you have an official complaints procedure that I need to follow then please notify me of how to go about it.

I look forward to hearing back from you shortly.

Yours faithfully,



Dear Sirs,

I am still awaiting a response to my below e-mail, having read reviews of your company online I see you are rather good at ignoring customer complaints. As stated below I am livid with the way your company has treated my property and also the way you have responded so poorly to my complaint, I am completely shocked and appalled.

Unless I hear back shortly, my next step will be to make a complaint to the Federation of Master Builders and start a dispute with them. Having done some research, I have found that your company have agreed to abide by the FMB and NRWB Disputes Resolution and Complaints Procedures so this will be my next course of action: http://www.fmb.org.uk/member-builders/Kenwood-Damp-Proofing-Plc-WD18-8QU. Failing this, I will start legal proceedings which I strongly suggest you take seriously and co-operate with.

I look forward to hearing back from you,




Thank you for your e-mail, I am sorry that you feel disappointed with the response we have provided, and this is understandable given that we have our own view on the matter that does not concur with your own.

ormus

IMHO i dont think you have a leg to stand on.
your own insurance should pay out, and then they may possibly claim their loss against the builders.

ps,
the FMB are a waste of space.

1984ReturnsForReal_2

You haven't even asked for their insurance details.

suisidevw

Genuinely, is that sarcasm or seriousness?!?!

1984ReturnsForReal_2

suisidevw wrote: »

Genuinely, is that sarcasm or seriousness?!?!

Its got nothing to do with the federation its straight negligence if you can prove it.

Court or let the insurance companies argue about it.

pinkteapot

ormus wrote: »

IMHO i dont think you have a leg to stand on.
your own insurance should pay out, and then they may possibly claim their loss against the builders.

ps,
the FMB are a waste of space.

OP needs to check the terms of their insurance.

Most insurance policies say that "accessible" windows must be closed and locked in order for them to pay out. Accessible windows are usually just the downstairs windows, but some loss assessors will say upstairs windows are accessible if there is a garage roof or similar that a burglar could get onto.

If the window left open wasn't accessible then yes, their insurance should pay out.

MX5huggy

Put them in court you may win, they shut the company down. Opening up with a new name, probably exactly the same with 2012 added to the name the next day. You get nothing.

Move on or claim on your insurance.

Idiophreak

suisidevw wrote: »

The plasterer who arrived at the scene first on Monday morning has given a statement that both front and back doors were open
...
only our builder who we trust 100% has had keys to the property and those are for the front doors both of which remained completely locked upon arrival on Monday morning.

TBH the original exchange is fairly rambly and contradictory in places. I can understand why the builders gave it a fairly blunt response...

Chunks

MX5huggy wrote: »

Put them in court you may win, they shut the company down. Opening up with a new name, probably exactly the same with 2012 added to the name the next day. You get nothing.

Move on or claim on your insurance.

Similar experience when a contractor drove his dumper into my car (which was parked). The contractor company eventually admitted liability (only after a legal case mind you) but claimed to have no means to settle my claim. They went bust and I lost my no claims..... Caused me loads of grief and got me nowhere.

Not being sure that a claim against the allegedly negligent contractor is 100% certain would point me in the direction of your brother's insurer. Got to be easier than arguing the toss about who said what and who didn't do this or that.

KateLiana27

It would be interesting to know exactly what the law is.

We had a lot of tradesmen renovating our new house in recent weeks. We work full-time so had to trust them with keys to let themselves in and out. All were given instructions to lock up, close windows, and so on. Most didn't. Even the ones that tried would accidentally leave a window open here and there, not lift the door handle correctly to the lock wouldn't take, wouldn't close the doors to make sure the alarm set, etc.

We considered that it was a risk we were taking for the convenience of not using our annual leave to ensure the house was properly secured. If the house had been burgled, we would have considered it our responsibility, not theirs. (Unless we had clear evidence that they were the ones to burgle us.)

You took a risk trusting a stranger to secure your home. It didn't pay off. I would take it as a lesson learned and make sure that in future you (or a trusted neighbour/friend/relative) are present to secure your home when tradesmen are, or have been, on the premises.

phill99

Ormus and Andrew B have made some valid points.

While I am sympathetic to your brothers situation, I think there is also a level of liability on his part. He offers his keys to a builder to undertake works in his absence and there is obviously a level of trust here. But with the best will in the world, we can all make mistakes and forget things - leaving a window open, leaving home having left and iron on, not checking for a motor bike at a T junction etc., all of which can result in unfortunate consequesnces.

The onus for securing the property unfortunately has to ret with the homeowner - he's the one having the work done. He obviously doesn't want to take time off to supervise builders and therefore accepts an element of risk by allowing builders a set of keys. He therefore can't throw his teddy out of the pram when something goes wrong and expect evereyone else to pick up the bill.

His insurance will cover it. Accepted, his premium will go up a few pounds next year, but that cost wont be any where near the loss of earnings if he had had to take 2 weeks or more off work.

Get your brother to see a solicitor - he will say you have virtually no chance of success in the courts.