QE3 = £75bn

harryhound

Does this mean that the bottom group is expecting to be thrown to the wolves?

Moody's split the downgrades into three categories:

Banks with a "high likelihood of support" are RBS and Lloyds.

Banks or building societies with a "moderate or high likelihood of support" are Nationwide, Santander UK, Co-operative Bank and Clydesdale Bank.

Institutions with a "low or no likelihood of support" included the following building societies: the Newcastle, Norwich & Peterborough, Nottingham, Principality, Skipton, West Bromwich and Yorkshire.

For a slightly more balanced factual view:
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/TopStories.aspx?Id=1729612&SM=1

Perhaps HSBC and its Asian depositors, should be allowed to rationalise some of the UK banking industry ?

harryhound

ILW wrote: »

Why do you take pleasure in renters and savers suffering?

Markets do what markets have to do, there is no emotion involved.

Central bankers sometimes understand what is happening.

Politicians by and large, haven't a clue what is happening.

Thrugelmir

harryhound wrote: »

Does this mean that the bottom group is expecting to be thrown to the wolves?

Which wolves?

ILW

harryhound wrote: »

Markets do what markets have to do, there is no emotion involved.

Central bankers sometimes understand what is happening.

Politicians by and large, haven't a clue what is happening.

True, but the question referred to Hamish's post where he stated "no use to renters and savers" followed by a smiley icon.

harryhound

So far it is only the Bristol and West building society bond holders (sorry PIBS holders) who have been taken to the barbers?

harryhound

ILW wrote: »

True, but the question referred to Hamish's post where he stated "no use to renters and savers" followed by a smiley icon.

Yes it is a bit early in the morning to be "on the sauce" again.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Politically you do have to ask how long the Tories can keep going with the current narrative.

We know very clearly what they think is the case. UK debt is Gordon Brown's debt gifted to our grandchildren, that its Labour's fault for overspending, there was no international crisis just a failure of Brown, that we needed better regulation of the banks, that QE is the last act of a desperate government after all other policies have failed.

Then we have an election. Now we're increasing debt both through a flatlining economy, money "loaned" to bankrupt other nations and now a further round of QE. We have a political budget designed to pay off the deficit in 4 years so that we can have a tax cut immediately before the election, one whose basic maths has collapsed due to the lack of growth and new jobs. And we have an ongoing international crisis which gets worse by the week and shows every sign of creating a worse crash than the one in 2008.

So, the Tories are now doing all the things they blamed Labour for - failing to regulate the banks (witness the utter failure of Project Merlin), increasing the debt, more QE. They appear to be clinging to the notion that they are cutting the debt and this is why Osborne's "desperate act" quote was valid in 2008 but not in 2011. Yet as is pointed out by the likes of John Moulton we aren't cutting the debt nor can we with an economy stagflating away. QE is an admission of utter failure and desperation - of that we know Osborne told the truth. I'm not saying it is or isn't needed, I'm pointing out that the political narrative built by the Tories on the economy is increasingly detatched from reality.

When this crashes - and it will - are we to witness halfwits like Warsi (last night on Question Time) still trying to blame everything on Labour? Or will the damage have swept this narrative and Osborne away? The LibDems at least seem to understand the politics - unless the economy is fixed by the next election they are all dead.

Really2

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Politically you do have to ask how long the Tories can keep going with the current narrative.

We know very clearly what they think is the case. UK debt is Gordon Brown's debt gifted to our grandchildren, that its Labour's fault for overspending, there was no international crisis just a failure of Brown, that we needed better regulation of the banks, that QE is the last act of a desperate government after all other policies have failed.

Then we have an election. Now we're increasing debt both through a flatlining economy, money "loaned" to bankrupt other nations and now a further round of QE. We have a political budget designed to pay off the deficit in 4 years so that we can have a tax cut immediately before the election, one whose basic maths has collapsed due to the lack of growth and new jobs. And we have an ongoing international crisis which gets worse by the week and shows every sign of creating a worse crash than the one in 2008.

So, the Tories are now doing all the things they blamed Labour for - failing to regulate the banks (witness the utter failure of Project Merlin), increasing the debt, more QE. They appear to be clinging to the notion that they are cutting the debt and this is why Osborne's "desperate act" quote was valid in 2008 but not in 2011. Yet as is pointed out by the likes of John Moulton we aren't cutting the debt nor can we with an economy stagflating away. QE is an admission of utter failure and desperation - of that we know Osborne told the truth. I'm not saying it is or isn't needed, I'm pointing out that the political narrative built by the Tories on the economy is increasingly detatched from reality.

When this crashes - and it will - are we to witness halfwits like Warsi (last night on Question Time) still trying to blame everything on Labour? Or will the damage have swept this narrative and Osborne away? The LibDems at least seem to understand the politics - unless the economy is fixed by the next election they are all dead.

If it was not labour but instead a global problem, you can't blame the tories as it is still a global problem.

So blame Labour and you can blame the tories.

Or don't blame Labour and don't blame the tories.

Can't see how anyone saying it was the world economies fault can revers the blame on this to be honest?

Dan:_4

ILW wrote: »

Why do you take pleasure in renters and savers suffering?

It's just the flip side of the coin. There are a few on here who take pleasure in homeowners in negative equity and repossession.

tomterm8

Really2 wrote: »

Can't see how anyone saying it was the world economies fault can revers the blame on this to be honest?

Politicians get blamed, even if it is not their fault.

Part of the job description, old chap.

That said, it's how you respond to problems that defines whether you get reelected.

We've really yet to see in the conservatives case... all we know is they haven't been able to do what they said they would. They claimed they would be able to cut spending - it is growing in real terms. And they claimed they would have reduced the deficit by now - it's much higher than the one in the budget.

We'll see if they can keep their promises.