Cut School Leaving Age to 14

Idiophreak

StevieJ wrote: »

It is different for them, English is now the world common language, it is continually conveyed via US films and pop music in general, it is not therefore, restricted to the time they meet an English person.

It's certainly different, but my point was "what's essential?". Germans view English as fairly essential (although I'd dispute this is just so they can understand pop music) - generally in this country we view it as being less essential...but, personally, I still think it's a pretty good thing for children to learn.

I was also making the point that children *can* be made to succeed in something, even if it's something they don't have a great natural aptitude or any enthusiasm for. In this example, they improve standards rates by "getting them when they're young" and teaching English from an early age. They don't just go "kids can't be bothered to learn English - so let's allow them to drop it"...

Percy1983

Well maybe it should be a case of apprenticeship or school, so you can only leave if you are being educated elsewhere.

I will say I got an apprenticeship at 15 as I was enthusiastic and wanted to learn, they got a good few years cheap labour out of me and I got great experience and quaifications.

Would I employee a 14 year old apprentice? if they where like I was all those years ago of course I would.

RenovationMan

chucknorris wrote: »

Plus late developers can always return to education later in life. I did not apply myself at school and left with poor qualifications and ended up being an electrician. But eventually I matured and realised I had more potential so I did a degree as a mature student and graduated when I was 32, it was one of the best decisions I have ever made.

I did something similar, but had my 'light bulb' moment a little earlier. I also studied electronics after leaving school and found an interest in and aptitude for digital electronics and machine code programming. After a bit of a slog through some intermediate qualifications, I graduated with a Computer Science degree.

Often people don't see the point of study until they find a vocation. I had absolutely no idea what logarithms were for while at school and considered them a waste of time to learn. Only when I did electronics did I learn their value. It was the same with simultaneous equations - no idea of their application until I studied computer graphics and vectoring.

SingleSue

EdgEy wrote: »

The basic issue is the lack of motivation most kids have during their school years.

Up until about 16-17 I'd had no careers guidance, no role model in the family, nothing. Jobs? How do I become a lawyer, teacher, surgeon, banker? That's for the "other half" isn't it?

I didn't see the point in learning because I could just do it later on if it was ever important, and anyway, all that I know is sub £10k jobs, why would I be the "rock star"?

Thankfully a bit later on, during my college years (and not before royally f*cking up my first year), I managed to get on my way a bit and I'm now at a good University. I now have a view on how to get into my chosen career, and even if I don't "make it" I can see the goal.

You will never get kids to learn until you show them why. Surround them with people who share a passion for learning because they realise the necessity.

Every time "what's the point of x" comes up in a lesson there should be an answer, because "x" gave us the steam engine. "x" gave us the transistor. Learning English will land you that job when you smash the cover letter.

Compulsory school leaving age is irrelevant. If you want people to stay on, show them WHY.

My careers advice consisted of " Here are the details for YTS scemes available"

My response was "Begger that, I can get paid more by going full time at my part time job, why go for 'training' where you get paid £27.50 a week (showing my age here), when I can go straight into a job paying £40"

And that was it!

Mind you, I always had a very clear idea of what I wanted to do, what I had to do to achieve it etc, so didn't need anyone else telling me anyway. Not that it worked out the way I wanted it to in the end, teachers strikes put paid to that and I sort of fell into a different career which I discovered I absolutely adored (and which had been covered by a back up qualification I had taken just in case).

chewmylegoff

jamespir wrote: »

reading writing etc

so you think 90% of school leavers cannot read or write? are you serious?

if you are, you are probably one of the much smaller number of school leavers who cannot read or write.

SingleSue

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

I think you've got it in one there.
Our children are too spoilt and cossetted to have any need to be motivated.
They sqawk and then they get,so why should they need to be motivated to aspire to anything for themselves personally.

Not all children.

My eldest son is very motivated to get to where he wants to be and is doing all he can to get there.

Youngest son already has a trading name for a company, has set out a business plan, has a product (or 3!) and can talk me into a coma about profit and loss, compound interest, start up costs, product costs, retail costs and on and on and on (he cares not whether the person already understands, you get the lecture anyway ).

He is 13 and complex autistic.

Middle son also has a clear idea and has back up careers if the first choice doesn't work out..which is a probable as regardless of how talented he is, the majority of musicians tend not to make enough money to survive and he knows it. He has gone from being written off educationally at age 8 to being in the top set for everything at age 14, he is determined to prove everyone wrong (he has aspergers, brain damage and poor short term memory function)

None of the boys are spoilt, if they want something, they have to get it themselves..to this end, eldest has already bought himself a bike and an Ipod through his part time earnings and an xbox through saving his pocket money and doing odd jobs for family and neighbours. Middle son bought himself a Wii through saving pocket money and doing odd jobs and youngest has sold self made newspapers, comics, books and artwork plus saved pocket money, birthday money and Christmas money to buy himself a second hand Ipod and is now well on his way in saving for an Ipad (he has set a target of by summer next year). He doesn't waste even a penny of his money on sweets or the such like (he even gave his elder brother a couple of his prized Star Wars books for his birthday yesterday rather than dipping into his savings, he is that motivated and determined)

The one thing they do not expect, is for anything to be given to them on a plate, they know if they want to succeed, then they will have work for it.

Pennywise

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

Speak to anyone involved and the biggest problem is [/FONT]getting employers on board.

And if you speak to small businesses who wants to take on an apprentice (or even a school work placement for a week) they'll tell you that the school/college want you to jump through so many hoops (i.e. upgrading your business insurance to unrealistically high and expensive levels of cover, not accepting your employment and H&S policies/procedures etc,) and don't give you any real support.

I've been there - with my own business (no employees) - approached by a local school to take a 2 week work placement - I readily agreed as I'm happy to help, but then the paperwork came through - literally dozens of pages of a questionnaire and requests for all manner of documents and policies many of which I didn't have - tried to talk some sense into the school but they were having none of it - so I just didn't bother in the end - far too much hassle for no reward.

Same with clients of mine, two spring to mind, one a motor repair garage and the other an electrician - both sole traders with no employees. Both wanted to take on an apprentice so contacted local College - both jumped through all the hoops and wasted a few trees to draft irrelevant documents and policies so the college could tick their boxes. Then apprentices arrived, college were unable to help re drafting the employment contract nor even the payroll aspects - just referred client to solicitor/accountant. Both said the day release at college was useless as it wasn't "hands on" - it was all classroom based - so both guys had to do all the relevant hands on teaching themselves, costing them time and money. Both apprentices were lazy, late, reluctant to do the dirty work, etc. and both were sacked after just a few weeks. Both business owners said they wouldn't bother again.

I deal with the smallest businesses every day and most would would be willing and able to take on an apprentice/trainee if there was some proper support and if they weren't so frightened of litigation.

Pennywise

SingleSue wrote: »

My careers advice consisted of " Here are the details for YTS scemes available"

Could have been worse - my careers advice was basically "you're good at maths so be an accountant"

chewmylegoff

Pennywise wrote: »

Could have been worse - my careers advice was basically "you're good at maths so be an accountant"

we had a computer which told everyone that they should be a farmer. literally everyone. this might have made sense if the school wasn't bang in the middle of the west midlands connurbation.

and maths is a pointless skill for an accountant, although calculator usage is a must have.

Percy1983

As an accountant I will agree maths is mostly useless, but maths does show logical thinking which is very useful.

As it is the careers computer came out with:
1, Supermarker manager
2, Accountant

I didn't fancy being incharge of carrier bags so the rest is history.