Cut School Leaving Age to 14

CAN1976

Is that not down to parents though? I know I am trying to instill in my 5 year old daughter that she needs to do her best at school, to enable her to get a good job to pay for the nice things she will want to have as an adult.

bugslet

MacMickster wrote: »

I also can't imagine real employers falling over themselves to provide apprenticeships to what would mainly be the very worst of our 14 year olds, when they don't want to do so with 16 year olds.

#

I think you have a good point there MacMickster. On the other hand I don't have an issue with schooling finishing at 14 if there are actual trades or apprenticeships to pursue.

A friend's son is a lovely and hard-working lad, but really when it comes to exams and the academic side, he is just not bright. When he left shcool at 16 he took up an apprenticeship with Scania as a mechanic and it was the best option for him. The problem will be those that choose not to make something of an apprenticeship when they have the ability to, same as those who could do well academically but for whatever reason, do not.

MacMickster

wymondham wrote: »

I bet most kids don't really understand the value of education .. it's only in later life you draw on it...

On one holiday to the Dominican Republic, I was talking to one of the locals who was proudly telling me about her son who had become the first member of her family to obtain any kind of recognised qualification - as a barman. This was actually no mean feat as it involved being able to talk to tourists in several languages - not just mix a few cocktails.

She told me that her son had worked on the family smallholding during the day, then walked several miles to the nearest school each evening to receive an education which, at that time, wasn't compulsory. Between the ages of 14 and 16, the school hours for his age range were 6pm to 10pm.

Minimum wage in the Dominican Republic is around 30p per hour, with a 10 hour working day being the norm. A barman, whilst likely to be paid at only this rate, will receive far more than this in tips from tourists, making this a prized qualification.

Compare this to even supposedly motivated youngsters in the UK who will complain about minimal homework which interferes with their time on Facebook or their Playstation etc.

Idiophreak

If a child at 14 has mastered basic literacy and numeracy

I think that's the most important quote...And I really don't believe the majority of children have mastered these things by 16, much less 14.

Personally, my BIL is 14 in a few months - the idea that he's mature enough to know what he wants to do with his life is totally laughable. So you have to assume it's the parents that will choose what the child's going to do...and that being the case, we'll just see the class divide widening further...

CAN1976

Idiophreak wrote: »

I think that's the most important quote...And I really don't believe the majority of children have mastered these things by 16, much less 14.

Personally, my BIL is 14 in a few months - the idea that he's mature enough to know what he wants to do with his life is totally laughable. So you have to assume it's the parents that will choose what the child's going to do...and that being the case, we'll just see the class divide widening further...

A majority? Really? My daughter is in Year 1, and her reading and writing is coming on just fine. I find it hard to believe a majority of children have not mastered reading, writing and basic (pre calculus) maths by age of 16.

onlyroz

MacMickster wrote: »

On one holiday to the Dominican Republic, I was talking to one of the locals who was proudly telling me about her son who had become the first member of her family to obtain any kind of recognised qualification - as a barman. This was actually no mean feat as it involved being able to talk to tourists in several languages - not just mix a few cocktails.

She told me that her son had worked on the family smallholding during the day, then walked several miles to the nearest school each evening to receive an education which, at that time, wasn't compulsory. Between the ages of 14 and 16, the school hours for his age range were 6pm to 10pm.

Minimum wage in the Dominican Republic is around 30p per hour, with a 10 hour working day being the norm. A barman, whilst likely to be paid at only this rate, will receive far more than this in tips from tourists, making this a prized qualification.

Compare this to even supposedly motivated youngsters in the UK who will complain about minimal homework which interferes with their time on Facebook or their Playstation etc.

I also went on a holiday to the Dominican Republic recently - and we were told the one thing they have done to massively increase school attendance has been to make the schools provide breakfast. It is still classed as a "third world" country, but they are working really hard to turn themselves round, and I wish that I saw the same level of dedication in the average british school child.

kabayiri

CAN1976 wrote: »

Is that not down to parents though? I know I am trying to instill in my 5 year old daughter that she needs to do her best at school, to enable her to get a good job to pay for the nice things she will want to have as an adult.

I guess you and those like us who try to instill good learning instincts in our children are not the targets Mr Woods is trying to address.

It is tricky because any solution which might work really one child might fail utterly for the next.

vax2002

The present system is based on academia, training people for office based work.
Nothing is given to training in practicable skills such as working with your hands.
Unfortunately the people that work with their hands create the wealth for the paper pushers to shove around the money go round.
It is already starting to crash down, 800 job losses in banking due to be announced.
We will end up a country of skill less academics with no paper jobs.

Idiophreak

CAN1976 wrote: »

A majority? Really? My daughter is in Year 1, and her reading and writing is coming on just fine. I find it hard to believe a majority of children have not mastered reading, writing and basic (pre calculus) maths by age of 16.

I guess it depends what you mean by "basic"...but I think "If I were going to hire someone, what are the "basic" things I'd want them to know...and I think GCSE's roughly the right level...

In a country where something like 40% of kids get less than 5 GSCEs at A-C, I really don't think we're in a position to be suggesting *less* education...

CAN1976

I'm all for more education for kids, but unless they want to be there and are capable of learning at the level being taught, then what's the point? A non academic pupil would be better off learning plastering, plumbing etc rather than than differentiation. Basic literacy is of course a must have. Letting kids leave school at 14 with nothing to go to, would be ridiculous, but splitting them in to 2 streams, one going on to A level etc, one going to vocational academies would make some sense.

Of course that would require such academies to exist. I don't trust firms to supply apprenticeships. The danger would be it being YTS all over again, where at the end of the scheme there is no job and you are replaced with a new cheap YTS'er