The Benefits System

hallmark

jamespir wrote: »

yeah great idea lets implement national poverty which will lead to evictions rise in crime and rise in deaths

some people really need to think about what they are saying

Why not cancel benefits for anyone young & healthy (as I'm suggesting) & give all of that money away to the people actually starving to death in other countries? I would far rather see my tax spent in that way.

"Implement national poverty", what a pathetic phrase, sort of thing I'd expect to hear at a labour conference. The minimum wage in this country is high enough that you can make a living delivering leaflets. The only reason people choose not to is they can get just as much by doing nothing.

Rather than have snide digs maybe you should try thinking, if you try long enough & hard enough you might come up with something.

Xiderpunk

custardy wrote: »

an effort is fine
where would you suggest the people get the stock?
its clear to me you live in a bubble
you are talking to someone who works FT and runs a small sideline
however I have the ability to see outside my little bubble

He is absolutely right, everybody can have a job or create a job themselves if they put in the effort. Those that truly believe they can't will quickly become believers once the hand that feeds stops feeding them.

Stock you say, pick a product for me, pick a line of stock. I could start a business tomorrow selling it with zero capitalization if I had too. Fortunately I would not have to, I would be prepared to do the groundwork to capitalize the business first.

I say this with absolute certainty, I will never be out of work except by my own choice.

jamespir

hallmark wrote: »

Why not cancel benefits for anyone young & healthy (as I'm suggesting) & give all of that money away to the people actually starving to death in other countries? I would far rather see my tax spent in that way.

"Implement national poverty", what a pathetic phrase, sort of thing I'd expect to hear at a labour conference. The minimum wage in this country is high enough that you can make a living delivering leaflets. The only reason people choose not to is they can get just as much by doing nothing.

Rather than have snide digs maybe you should try thinking, if you try long enough & hard enough you might come up with something.

but there has to be jobs available for them to deliver leaflets (there isnt any round here )

we should lower the wages of people in banking parliament and these company bosses who get payed to play golf all day oh and local council leaders should have there wages cut they spend most of the time having lavish dinners

i

jamespir

Andrew1975 wrote: »

dont be ridiculous

its the truth or do you bury your head in the sand during the winter months

leveller2911

Everyone and anyone can fall on hard times and its right for the State to help.Say we all left school at 16 and retired at 67 then thats 51 year of hopefully full employment.I believe we should have a limit on the number of years someone can receive beneits before retirement.

IMO its not unfair to receieve around 10 years of benefits during that time.I'm basing this on the fact that we have for some decades had boom then bust so if the good times last say 10 year and bad times 3-4 years then thats around 2 years of benefits for every 10 year.I admit I haven't sat down and seriously worked out the figures because TBH I don't think I know enough about the topic.

I am a firm believer in people not receiving any benefits until they have paid into the system but I would make exceptions for the genuinely disabled. There are far to many people who can come up with a million and 1 reasons why they can't/won't work and they need to be forced into work or rejected from the system.If they don't wish to be a member of Society then they should not expect Society to look after them.

I would also give people a higher State Pension if they have worked hard all of their lives and paid full NI contributions.

Will sit back and wait to be shot down in flames.............Being self employed is tough and most people couldn't handle running their own business but I respect all those that genuinely give it a go but I don't mean those who open an online shop on E-bay just to get round the benefits entitlement rules.

Xiderpunk

jamespir wrote: »

but there has to be jobs available for them to deliver leaflets (there isnt any round here )

we should lower the wages of people in banking parliament and these company bosses who get payed to play golf all day oh and local council leaders should have there wages cut they spend most of the time having lavish dinners

i

Ah I see so what you are saying is they are dependent on others and unable to think for themselves and to provide themselves work if others can not.

Ah yes that is the answer! Lets punish those awful wealthy people, lets tax them more, lets take away their fancy cars, nice homes. Yes lets bring it all down to a level of mediocrity. Lets ignore the fact that wealthy people create the jobs and often support tens, hundreds or even thousands of peoples families through their willingness to apply effort and innovation.

jamespir

Xiderpunk wrote: »

Ah I see so what you are saying is they are dependent on others and unable to think for themselves and to provide themselves work if others can not.

Ah yes that is the answer! Lets punish those awful wealthy people, lets tax them more, lets take away their fancy cars, nice homes. Yes lets bring it all down to a level of mediocrity. Lets ignore the fact that wealthy people create the jobs and often support tens, hundreds or even thousands of peoples families through their willingness to apply effort and innovation.

well you so quick to pick on those on benefits

yeah you can set up a business but you need money to do that where are you expecting them to get it from ?
yeah you can get a loan but most business loans you need to have the same amount yourself

pqrdef

hallmark wrote: »

Countless COUNTLESS opportunities in the UK.

Hey, it's bob-a-job week!

But charities don't even do this sort of thing to fund-raise now. The world has moved on. All forms of trade are more strictly regulated. You'll want liability insurance before you set off with your bucket and sponge, in case somebody slips on your soapy water.

There is of course a black economy that operates outside the law. Is that where you think the answer lies?

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

I was watching channel 4 news last night and they had some comparisons between benefits in certain european countries. Maybe someone can correct me on the actual countries but I remember the figures.

In Denmark unemployment benefit is 90% of the average wage. In Holland (I think) it was 65% and in Germany it's 75%. In the UK it's £65 maximum a week, which I make to be around 14% of the average wage. I know all of these systems will have complex systems around kids and houses and other benefits, but I was quite surprised at how low our's was.

I've heard similar, but it was pointed out that in Holland (for example, though probably was Holland), thats ALL you get.

I.e that cash is supposed to pay for housing, things like council tax etc.

Makes the comparison a little pointless.

Xiderpunk

jamespir wrote: »

well you so quick to pick on those on benefits

yeah you can set up a business but you need money to do that where are you expecting them to get it from ?
yeah you can get a loan but most business loans you need to have the same amount yourself

I talk from experience of having started many businesses over the years starting from an early age. You start small with the resources you have and a strategy on how to grow the business. It is that simple. If you have two arms, two legs and the will then you have a ready made business right there. I could expand at length on this topic however I fear that unless you understand the fundamental truth that 'where there is a will there is a way' that it is pointless.