Heating an open plan living area - UFH?

madeupname1

Hi fellow MSEs!
I have an open plan living / dining room which has the staircase leading off it to the upper floor. The room is about 25 ft x 15 ft and is currently heated by two double radiators - 1 on each length of the room. Finally I also have a glass front gas fire.

The room is very difficult to get and keep warm. It will be warm if the central heating has been on for several hours, but by that stage the upper floor is roasting. The gas fire helps, but you only feel it if you are sat close to it. The basic problem is the open plan nature of the room.

I am considering options. My least favourite is to reinstate the old walls which a previous owner took down (its an old victorian end of terrace cottage). I have searched for innovative ways to have movable wall partitions (that can be left open during the summer and closed as necessary during the winter) but haven't found anything which suitable.

I am now considering under floor heating as I have read that a heating source from the floor up generally gives a warmer feeling (rather than convection heat from radiators).

Anyone have any experience of this? What about costs? The house is mostly centrally heated, but I dont know if it will be possible to install the water pipe UFH, rather than electric. All thoughts appreciated.

ic

Are the stairs fully open into the room, or is there just a doorway to them? In my Victorian terrace I recently put a door back at the bottom of the stairs, where it had been a large 9 foot high opening. I built it so that there is a glass fanlight at the top, that itself is a small door (due to the fact the stairs start immediately behind the door, I needed to be able to retain the original opening for getting large items like mattresses through). Even with only the fanlight closed, the difference to the heating has been quite remarkable. The room now heats quickly and as the thermostat is in that same room, the boiler isn't running anywhere near as hard - the rest of the house is now easier to control as all the heat isn't whistling off up stairs.

If your stairs are completely open, perhaps you could look at a way of walling them in but retaining a lot of (toughened) glass windows within the new walls? That would help to retain the open feel, but keep the heat (and sound) downstairs.

I suspect that even with underfloor heating, you'd only feel as warm for as long as the heating is on. Once it goes off, you'll still lose the heat as it rises and disappears off upstairs.

madeupname1

Hello thanks for the reply

Yes the stairs are fully open direct the living room. Basically, in the original layout there would have been a wall creating a separate hallway and living room. A previous owner knocked down that wall. So the heat is escaping directly through the spindles, over the bannister and up the stairs.

Sounds like you did the work yourself? Part of the problem is I am not even sure what kind of help I need because I need a tradesman that can also give me some advice about options to stop heat escaping but keep the storage and light ... sigh

jc808

madeupname1 wrote: »

Hello thanks for the reply

Yes the stairs are fully open direct the living room. Basically, in the original layout there would have been a wall creating a separate hallway and living room. A previous owner knocked down that wall. So the heat is escaping directly through the spindles, over the bannister and up the stairs.

Sounds like you did the work yourself? Part of the problem is I am not even sure what kind of help I need because I need a tradesman that can also give me some advice about options to stop heat escaping but keep the storage and light ... sigh

You want a tradesman that can help bend the laws of physics and thermodynamics? Wow

Alternatively just put a wall back in there

nicka99

hi,
we just had an extension which is approx 12.5ft x 20ft with wet UF heating. It has a vaulted ceiling so pretty high in the middle. The heating provides a lovely warmth to the whole room and there are no hot or cold patches unlike the rest of the house which has traditional radiators where there are drafts all around ! However, the extension ois new so has proper insulated cavity walls & roof etc so not comparable to a victorian house construction ! It does however have 3 external walls and nothing above (aside from the roof) so the heating has a big job to do to keep the cold out.

I would not recommend electric UF heating for such a large space. we had this before in our old kitchen and it was next to useless and cost a small fortune to run. wet UF installation will depend on your floors. If its a solid floor then it would be very difficult to fit without substantial work to dig down far enough to provide enough depth for the necessary insualtion, pipe and screed. Normally victorian houses have suspended floors which would be easier to insulate between the joists and fit trays above that carry the pipes then floorboards/chipboard, laminate or (thin) carpert on top. You can tap into the pipework of your existing heating to run the UF heating but you need some extra kit (mixing manfold, pumps etc) to mix the very hot radiator water with cooler water in the UF circuit to bring the tempertaure down to 50-55 degress which is the optimal for UF heating (since you dont want to burn your feet or cook the substructure of your house!).

for wet UF heating with concrete screed, the heat will continue to disspiate for a long time (several hours) after the heating has gone off since the concrete has a very high thermal mass. It does however also take a very long time to warm up if a sudden cold snap hits and its not been on. We have a thermostat that steps the tempertaure back only a couple of degrees at night so it is constantly 'topped up' so is warm pretty much 24x7.

alternatively (much cheaper!), could you make some kind of heavy floor to ceiling curtains/drapes that you pulled across the open sections of the staircase when its cold to stop all the heat rising ? my inlaws did this in their last house.

madeupname1

jc808 wrote: »

You want a tradesman that can help bend the laws of physics and thermodynamics? Wow

Alternatively just put a wall back in there

As I said, what I am looking for is innovative/imaginative ideas about solving the problem of heating loss but whilst maintaining space, light and asthetics of the open plan. However thanks for taking time out of your day and mine to post that useful reply.

madeupname1

nicka99 wrote: »

hi,
we just had an extension which is approx 12.5ft x 20ft with wet UF heating. It has a vaulted ceiling so pretty high in the middle. The heating provides a lovely warmth to the whole room and there are no hot or cold patches unlike the rest of the house which has traditional radiators where there are drafts all around ! However, the extension ois new so has proper insulated cavity walls & roof etc so not comparable to a victorian house construction ! It does however have 3 external walls and nothing above (aside from the roof) so the heating has a big job to do to keep the cold out.

I would not recommend electric UF heating for such a large space. we had this before in our old kitchen and it was next to useless and cost a small fortune to run. wet UF installation will depend on your floors. If its a solid floor then it would be very difficult to fit without substantial work to dig down far enough to provide enough depth for the necessary insualtion, pipe and screed. Normally victorian houses have suspended floors which would be easier to insulate between the joists and fit trays above that carry the pipes then floorboards/chipboard, laminate or (thin) carpert on top. You can tap into the pipework of your existing heating to run the UF heating but you need some extra kit (mixing manfold, pumps etc) to mix the very hot radiator water with cooler water in the UF circuit to bring the tempertaure down to 50-55 degress which is the optimal for UF heating (since you dont want to burn your feet or cook the substructure of your house!).

for wet UF heating with concrete screed, the heat will continue to disspiate for a long time (several hours) after the heating has gone off since the concrete has a very high thermal mass. It does however also take a very long time to warm up if a sudden cold snap hits and its not been on. We have a thermostat that steps the tempertaure back only a couple of degrees at night so it is constantly 'topped up' so is warm pretty much 24x7.

alternatively (much cheaper!), could you make some kind of heavy floor to ceiling curtains/drapes that you pulled across the open sections of the staircase when its cold to stop all the heat rising ? my inlaws did this in their last house.

Thanks so much - its very helpful to hear your experiences especially re the electric underfloor heating! Luckily there isn't a solid floor in the living room so its a possibility.

ariba10

We live in a terraced house and I opened up most of the downstairs, but as I was a shift worker at the time. I cased in the stairs with a small lobby at the bottom. mainly to cut down on noise.

Much against the OH wishes.

Best move I ever did. The neighbours left it all open and are having problems in keeping the downstairs warm.

I am afraid it is one of the laws of Physics. Warm air rises.

martinthebandit

Have you thought about a ceiling fan? They usually have a switch on them so you can reverse them so that they push the warm air back downwards.

gmgmgm

Try putting a curtain across the bottom of the stairs.

In old houses it was common to have heavy curtains across doorways and hallways to keep the heat in.

madeupname1

ariba10 - Thanks for that. Ultimately it may be the way to go. Just wish I could see what it would look like before actually getting it done! Could to hear that it was a success for you.

martinthebandit - great idea - thanks! not sure it will work for me given the size of the room, but something to add to the mix.

gmgmgm - again thanks. That may be the start for this winter whilst I continue to ponder ...