MSE News: 900,000 to get minimum pay rise

Kajimba

Googlewhacker wrote: »

At the end of the day you only stay on NMW if you want to stay there, if you want more money you will further yourself, work for yourself and make sure you get a better paid job.

This is not true: there are too many people for absolutely everyone who wants an non minimum wage job to get such a job. The same as there are too many people for everyone who wants a job to be able to get one. Just to be clear, I'm not just referring to immigration, I'm talking about the UK's birthrate as well.

Personally, I am on NMW because of making massive mistakes in my life (including falling in love with the wrong subject at school). However, most of those working alongside me do everything you've mentioned for years, but have yet to be promoted or find a better job elsewhere. Of course, I realise that the plural of anecdote is NOT data.

Kajimba

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Tell this to the old farts of today and they won't believe you, ... they just won't

Regarding whether you can live on NMW, I think the main problem is that many NMW jobs are part-time. Also, if you are single, childfree & work between 16-30 hours then you cannot claim Tax Credits.

For me personally, it breaks down roughly as follows:
Rent, including bills: 60% of monthly salary
Transport to work: 10%
Food: 20%
Debts from education: 5%
Being alive rather than merely existing:up to 5%

I do not go on holidays, visit my family or save. I have no insurance of any kind and I never go to the dentist.

gadgetmind

Kajimba wrote: »

This is not true: there are too many people for absolutely everyone who wants an non minimum wage job to get such a job.

97.5% of adults have jobs on > minimum wage. What are they doing right that the other 2.5% are doing wrong?

My time working 48 hour weeks for minimum wage do stick with me. During breaks I would be reading books on physics and mathematics, and taking a load of stick from people who regarded such things as irrelevant. Yes, if your entire lifetime plan is to change sheets and wash dishes, you don't need to have a grasp of kinematics, thermodynamics, and quadratics, I'll give you that point. Well done, advantage you.

SapphireFlames

Originally Posted by Googlewhacker

At the end of the day you only stay on NMW if you want to stay there, if you want more money you will further yourself, work for yourself and make sure you get a better paid job.

Not necessarily. There are people with disabilities who wouldn't be able to get a job that pays higher than minimum wage.

tagq2

gadgetmind wrote: »

97.5% of adults have jobs on > minimum wage.

Not even 97.5% of adults have jobs. What precise statistic are you quoting? What proportion of adults receiving any sort of wage are paid within, say, 20% of NMW? (NMW sets a baseline for the job market which affects all low wages.)

What are they doing right that the other 2.5% are doing wrong?

It's possible that these people aren't doing anything wrong. Perhaps they're at the start of their career. Perhaps they lack the capability to go further.

My time working 48 hour weeks for minimum wage do stick with me. During breaks I would be reading books on physics and mathematics,

Same, although I admit it was a few dozen pence above minimum wage and my boss was fairly flexible with working hours.

and taking a load of stick from people who regarded such things as irrelevant.

I was neither encouraged nor discouraged. But I learnt that, at least from the PoV of my career progression, it was irrelevant.

Yes, if your entire lifetime plan is to change sheets and wash dishes, you don't need to have a grasp of kinematics, thermodynamics, and quadratics,

I have a mathematics degree (see "during breaks" reading above). So do thousands of people each year. Unless it's from a top university, no-one cares. Higher education isn't like thirty or even twenty years ago where a degree meant that you were part of a small elite of clever individuals. Today it just means that you're like 50% of your contemporaries either delaying entry to the job market or doing something interesting in your spare time.

FWIW, I'm certainly not against the idea of getting an undergraduate degree. But if you want it to affect your salary prospects, make sure the university is in the top ten of any of the well-known listings. Otherwise it's just an exercise in personal development and (depending on what you choose) brain-training.

[ETA] Like fedster said, you have to stand out. But it's not enough to just try to learn stuff. To stand out you have to be better than all the others in some way. And not everyone can be better than everyone else - it wouldn't even make sense!

gadgetmind

tagq2 wrote: »

Not even 97.5% of adults have jobs.

Yes, sorry, sloppy wording on my part. 97.5% of *working* adults earn > minimum wage.

Perhaps they lack the capability to go further.

I think that's more than likely.

FWIW, I'm certainly not against the idea of getting an undergraduate degree. But if you want it to affect your salary prospects, make sure the university is in the top ten of any of the well-known listings.

I employ a lot of grads, and while we do target certain universities for direct promotion, we do not have kind of list of universities whose degrees we regard as more worthy than others.

As we hire from a world-wide pool of talent, such a list wouldn't really work. I suppose that in the UK we could restrict ourselves to Russel Group and 1994 Group, which between them have 39 members, but why would we? And where does your "top ten of any of the well-known listings" list come from?

I'm afraid that I'm less than convinced that any sensible employer would use a filter such as this.

And not everyone can be better than everyone else - it wouldn't even make sense!

No, but you can have skills that make your labour worth more than minimum wage.

2sides2everystory

gadgetmind wrote: »

Yes, sorry, sloppy wording on my part. 97.5% of *working* adults earn > minimum wage.

I think that remains a sloppy assertion.

Kajimba

gadgetmind wrote: »

97.5% of adults have jobs on > minimum wage. What are they doing right that the other 2.5% are doing wrong?

My time working 48 hour weeks for minimum wage do stick with me. During breaks I would be reading books on physics and mathematics, and taking a load of stick from people who regarded such things as irrelevant. Yes, if your entire lifetime plan is to change sheets and wash dishes, you don't need to have a grasp of kinematics, thermodynamics, and quadratics, I'll give you that point. Well done, advantage you.

Given that 8% of the UK workforce was on NMW in 2007, I think your statistic may be inaccurate. It should also be considered that the people to jobs ratio is a lot higher in some areas than others. Plus a NMW job does n't give much leeway for saving up to relocate/travel to interviews, even assuming you can find the time for job interviews.

Congratulations to you, it takes a lot of stamina to do that. Even a small health problem can make what you describe difficult or even counterproductive - taking a career break due to physical collapse tends to put a dent in one's CV. In my workplace you would not just have got ''a load of stick'', your colleagues would manouvere so that you either resigned or got sacked.

Also, NMW jobs are not just dishwashing or hotel work. Many retail jobs (including my own pay NMW). I actually really enjoy retail, but my current employer has no job openings above NMW and has refused to give references if I apply to other companies as they don't want me to leave (despite only paying NMW)! There is a way around this, but it involves lying. This brings me to answering your question: what are this notional 2.5% doing wrong? They are not lying on their CVs, they are not omitting qualifications from their CVs to avoid the 'over-qualified' trap or they are being too honest with whoever they current work for about their desire for a higher wage. This is not an exhaustive list, of course.;)

Sitbh

gadgetmind wrote: »

And only 2.5% of adults. In other words, 97.5% of adults have the skills to let them earn more than the minimum wage.

Rather than concentrating on the level of minimum wage, why don't we concentrate on how to let people skill-up and earn more?

You may have only had the skills to dishwash for some time, but what about the others who have skills yet are still in minimum wage jobs because 1. it's all that is available, or 2. it's a stepping stone in their industry?

I can speak for myself and a handful of my friends who work for film facilities in london who are all on minimum wage because it's the only place to start. I have a 1st class honors in a BSc degree. And i'm still on minimum wage, and have been for a year.

SapphireFlames

Googlewhacker wrote: »

I disagree, if you are capable of working you are capable of furthering yourself, it won't be easy but can be done.

I was mostly referring to people with learning disabilities (as opposed to physical disabilities). No doubt some of these people do manage to progress from an entry-level (minimum wage) job to a higher level job, but it's much harder than it would be for someone with no disabilities. It all depends how severe the disability is.