Kindle ebooks DVDs - how are these legal??

mwddrwg

Hi all,

It might be me being thick, but I've seen a lot of listings for DVDs full of ebooks for the Kindle etc which include titles from very well known authors (e.g. Stephen King). They all have the obligatory disclaimer about the files being in the public domain and therefore free, but surely books by major authors must be copyrighted! Any idea how they get away with these listings?

Crowqueen

You're right - copyright does not expire until 50-70 years after the author's death. It varies with jurisdiction as well as some properties, such as Mickey Mouse, being in perpetual copyright, so I would steer well clear of those sort of things and maybe report the seller to Trading Standards if you feel very strongly about it.

They get away with it because of the old "nothing ventured, nothing gained" saying. If this is eBay, then report them for infringement of copyright. Amazon should probably have more control about what is listed in their own Kindle shop.

mwddrwg

It's definitely ebay but why are these listings not removed?

Crowqueen

mwddrwg wrote: »

It's definitely ebay but why are these listings not removed?

Because the sheer volume of listings mean eBay can't police their site very effectively and rely on people reporting listings.

Pre-vetting would probably make it more expensive to run and Amazon do have their own procedures, but they are less open in general to sellers wishing to list outside certain prescribed categories and their catalogue so they find it easier to manage to keep fraudulent listings off the site. eBay's structure and openness mean they rely on reports from users.

It's a bit of a PITA but I don't see how they can practicably vet or restrict sellers any other way, or at least I don't see them going down this particular route.

forgotmyname

Because its makes ebay money also. Complain about several sellers for the same reason and the sellers
with low feedback will get cancelled long before sellers with good feedback and regular sales.

Your better off reporting to the company involved amazon in this case, They will have more clout with
ebay.

andrewsi

Crowqueen wrote: »

You're right - copyright does not expire until 50-70 years after the author's death. It varies with jurisdiction as well as some properties, such as Mickey Mouse, being in perpetual copyright

Does it vary by property? I thought that every time Mickey Mouse came close to going into the public domain, there was a new copyright act passed to extend the term again, for all authors.

The only property I can think of that's not covered by general copyright law is Peter Pan; for which copyright was explicitly given to Great Ormand Street Hospital in perpetuity - other than that, I can't think of another property that's dealt with separately.

steveE2

There are lots of reputable sites where users can download ebooks legally, such as Project Gutenberg, the Universal Library and the University of Virginia's ebook library.

Note some of these books are only copyright free in US

RFW

andrewsi wrote: »

Does it vary by property? I thought that every time Mickey Mouse came close to going into the public domain, there was a new copyright act passed to extend the term again, for all authors.

The only property I can think of that's not covered by general copyright law is Peter Pan; for which copyright was explicitly given to Great Ormand Street Hospital in perpetuity - other than that, I can't think of another property that's dealt with separately.

Not that I'm an expert but I think it is the stories that go out of copyright but the characters can be owned. So the Peter Pan stories are actually public domain but anyone publishing them has to pay royalties for use of the character. I'd imagine that early Mickey Mouse cartoons are public domain but similar issues apply to how they may be broadcast.
As for books, Shakespeare and Dickens are all public domain works so no one receives royalties for them and anyone can publish them.
As with all things that involve the law it is a bit of a minefield and open to interpretation.
An interesting fact on this is that all cookery recipes are not able to be copyrighted.

Crowqueen

No, Disney got the US government to reserve rights to Mickey Mouse essentially in perpetuity; they are trademarked, which means as long as Disney keeps using them, they never go out of copyright. Individual cartoons may go out but Steamboat Willie is copyrighted until 2023.

Disney also owns rights to a number of fictional works, such as Winnie the Pooh. Barrie gave the rights to Peter Pan to Great Ormond Street - I think - which frustrated Disney a bit but does make them an absolute packet.

Mickey Mouse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse#Legal_issues

Peter Pan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_and_Wendy#Copyright_status

WTP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_the_Pooh_(Disney)

antrobus

Crowqueen wrote: »

No, Disney got the US government to reserve rights to Mickey Mouse essentially in perpetuity; they are trademarked, which means as long as Disney keeps using them, they never go out of copyright. Individual cartoons may go out but Steamboat Willie is copyrighted until 2023.

Disney also owns rights to a number of fictional works, such as Winnie the Pooh. Barrie gave the rights to Peter Pan to Great Ormond Street - I think - which frustrated Disney a bit but does make them an absolute packet.

Mickey Mouse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse#Legal_issues

Peter Pan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_and_Wendy#Copyright_status

WTP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie_the_Pooh_(Disney)

A 'trademark' and 'copyright' are actually two different things, as stated by your cited sources.

Specifically;

It is sometimes erroneously stated that the Mickey Mouse character is only copyrighted. In fact, the character, like all major Disney characters, is also trademarked, which lasts in perpetuity as long as it continues to be used commercially by its owner. So, whether or not a particular Disney cartoon goes into the public domain, the characters themselves may not be used as trademarks without authorization.

The Mickey Mouse trademark is forever; the copyright for Mickey Mouse cartoons start running out from 2023 onwards. Or some later date yet to be specified in some yet to be passed US federal legislation.

Crowqueen

You're not wrong; you're simply re-stating what I wrote and quoting from the articles.

The so-called "Mickey Mouse Protection Act" provides for both copyright and trademarks to be maintained on both Mickey and the cartoons featuring him. I think it may be safe to say that Disney will aggressively defend the copyright on many of their cartoons so perhaps the point is moot in that case. After all, the corporation is a legal entity - it can own the rights and thus they could never expire so long as the Disney Corporation exists. This is the case with the Great Ormond Street ownership of the rights to Peter Pan and the works that feature him - the hospital owns the rights therefore the only case where they would go out of copyright would be when the hospital ceases to exist as a legal entity.

Those links I posted however refer to the rights for usage of characters like Winnie The Pooh and Peter Pan - neither they nor their original works are out of copyright at all and should not be assumed to be simply because their creators are long dead. The ownership of rights means they are not out of copyright. It's contentious, and people may disagree with this, but it's too simplistic to say that all copyright expires 50-70 years after the creator's death - it depends on the works involved.