Another balls up by the DWP

NASA_2

rogerblack wrote: »

For the purposes of ESA, terminal illness is defined as...

Like I said - terminal illness is terminal illness and is treated as such.

If you are expected to die within six months then special rules apply meaning that you are paid the highest rates of DLA/ESA from the date of claim/supersession.

All terminal illness claimants are recorded as such - doesnt mean they get special rules.

mardatha

So these letters are going out so that seriously ill people can "make plans" are they? What kind of plans ? Like how to live on fresh air and pay a mortgage or rent out of thin air? Some seriously stupid insensitive prats in this forum. Honest to god - life has a lot to teach you.

FleurDuLys

People who are very ill can continue on ESA after a year if they need to though, so they won't be suddenly cut off with no money. They'll just get income-related ESA instead.

Also, terminally ill people (like myself) are usually in the Support Group. And ESA(C) doesn't stop for us, it only stops for people in the WRAG.

NASA_2

mardatha wrote: »

So these letters are going out so that seriously ill people can "make plans" are they? What kind of plans ? Like how to live on fresh air and pay a mortgage or rent out of thin air? Some seriously stupid insensitive prats in this forum. Honest to god - life has a lot to teach you.

They wont be living on nothing. If they arent entitled to ESA(IR) it is because they have other income or capital that they can dispose of.

So all this hand wringing about people being left high and dry is absolute nonsense. They already have income either as an individual or as a family unit.

Sixer

Even as what some posters on here would describe as a bleeding heart liberal, I'm a bit confused about exactly why time-limiting CB ESA is such a bad thing.

ESA is an out-of-work benefit, supporting people to buy food, energy and other common-to-all necessities.
DLA is not related to work status and is designed to support the extra costs associated with being ill or disabled.

Out-of-work benefits are time-limited for those with NI contributions history and based on family income for those without an NI history or who have exhausted contributions-based entitlement.

Surely ill or disabled people with extra care or mobility needs and who cannot work will be claiming ESA and DLA? I see no reason why high income families with one ill member shouldn't support them with the necessities common to everyone (food, clothes, light, heat) through a period of not working in the same way they do for JSA claimants within the family unit?

This is not to say that I think the system itself is working well. It's clear that the claim and test processes aren't working as well as they should and vulnerable people are suffering because of it. But I don't see what's wrong with the principle that DLA is non means-tested and caters for extra care and mobility needs regardless of family income, but ESA is (eventually) means tested and families are supposed to feed and clothe ill members if they have the means to do so.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

Terminal illness is terminal illness - the DWP dont define it any differently to anyone else.

Special rules cases are defined as cases where the person is not expected to live six months or more.

But they do define it differently.
They apply the special rules test, yes, but they also define terminal illness the same as under special rules due to legislation.



Direct from the horses mouth, the dwp's own website

2.1
The Special Rules Check/Terminal Illness Check (SR or TI check)
When a claimant contacts JCP indicating that they wish to apply for ESA they may state that they are terminally ill.

The definition of Terminal illness in the Welfare Reform Act legislation is:

“That he is suffering from a progressive disease and his death in consequence of that disease can reasonably be expected within 6 months"

source

Other pages refer to other legisation for things like aa/dla, and make it clear the dwp's definition differs from the normal clinical definition.

What is Terminal Illness?

Terminal illness means any illness which ends in death. There is no possibility of recovery. Clinicians’ definition differs from terminal illness as defined in DLA / AA regulations.

• In DLA / AA regulations we define this as more likely to die of their disease in the next six months than not.
• Clinicians define terminal illness as any illness that will end in death.

A person may be terminally ill according to a clinician’s definition but not be terminally ill according to regulations because they are expected to live longer than six months. This can be difficult to determine and it is recommended that all such cases be referred to medical services.

source

NASA_2

You are still missing the point - terminal illness is terminal illness. And the DWP will accept that someone is terminally ill even if they dont expect to die within sixx months.

You're quoting the special rules guidance again - and for purely benefit purposes - and for ease of understanding - they term it as the same thing in the guidance.

If a doctors opinion arrives and says the claimant will live for twelve months then they are not told that they dont have a terminal illness. They are told that they dont satisfy the special rules and will be assessed the same as anyone else.

It may be semantics but I have plenty of time on my hands here.