Do old dating traditions still apply?

briona

I can't believe the number of women out there who are not only willing to let men pay for everything, but actually EXPECT them to. All the time. Interestingly [as someone has already pointed out] most women are only willing – and even then rather grudgingly! – to pay for half. Surely this reflects very badly on us women?!!

I was asked out recently by a man who I am now seeing, and while I did offer to pay my share on our first date, he wouldn't have it. Being a man he wanted to pay so I graciously accepted but since then I have happily paid for the full bills on a few other dates – and he has graciously accepted. I would not have it any other way. I earn a wage so what's the problem?

sparkymarky

Warning Guys - don't fall for this old tradition. A woman will respect a guy alot more if he is NOT offering to buy drinks and meals and adorning her with gifts. etc. It is not a way to get her respect, and will just make you broke. Guys usually date a few people before they find the right person, and there is only so much money can be spent on dating each month. So don't go spending it all, just because it's the tradition. Dating can get VERY expensive very quickly if you do it that way. And for a moneysaver forum, I would expect people to be recommending alternatives to asking someone out for dinner anyway. Dinner is an expensive date.

The poll said "If a woman and man go out for dinner on a first date, who should pay?"

Well, on a first date, asking someone out for dinner is hardly appropriate, especially if you are trying to pay off your debts (as many people on this site seem to be doing). A better idea for a first date would be a drink in a bar or a coffee somewhere, or a long walk in the countryside - far more likely to be a winner for a first date. Remember - a first date is about getting to know someone better, and talking, and not about showing off your wealth, or throwing your money about.

If it's a first date, then it would be better to get to know someone better anyway before you start spending lots of money on them, especially if you don't have it. You can easily waste thousands taking the wrong person out for meals before you find the right one for you.

You do need money to date. And it's best saving it where you can. That way you aren't skint when you find the right person, and you will actually have some money left to spend on doing the fun things in life. Otherwise, you can easily spend 10K on dating to find the right person and just have a huge debt at the end of it, not very impressive for your new partner when you eventually find them!

I think women completely underestimate the costs men pick up when it comes to dating. Phonecalls are expected regularly. Texts. Petrol. New clothes. Paying for entry to clubs and events. Drinks. Meals. Taxis home. And no i'm not saying that it doesn't cost women to date, either, but when you have the attitude that most women have demonstrated here (pointed out by briona in the previous post) where they are very willing to let men pay for everything, and slightly hesitant when it comes to going dutch... then it can get expensive for the guy.

Let's estimate £100 costs per date (if paying for 2 people), including taxi etc. If it takes 3 dates to get to know if you are compatible, and if you have to date at least 10 people (not at the same time, ideally) to find someone who is well matched (mutual attraction). And let's say it costs £100 in extra social activities that lead to find each person in the first place. Plus £400 on new clothes. £300 on extra mobile phone calls and texts - as women tend to want guys to phone them to show that they are keen and like to talk a lot when they do call. That's £4,700 before you have even met someone you get on well with. And then at that stage onwards you will be spending a lot more when you meet the right person...so that's just the beginning!

Many women in this forum have said that 'they expect the man to pay if the man is doing the asking' - but how many women actually ask men out for a meal on a first date? Very very few women actually ask men out first at all. Maybe a handful. So with the attitude of, the person who asks pays, it will inevitably be men picking up the bill.

There's a website called Girls Date for Free, and that sums it up quite well as a theme. It's an online dating site where the men have to pay quite heavily to join, and the women get to join for free. It reflects the social side of dating where men go out looking for a partner, do most of the asking, and can spend considerable amounts of money seeking.

You might even find that the girl of your dreams hasn't got a house, and is on quite a low wage when you find her, and possibly has a heap of debt too. She might not even tell you about it for a while. It can put a massive dampener on the happiness when you are restricted from doing fun and exciting things with your new partner because one of you is in 25K debt, and doesn't tell you about it for a while. And there you are dreaming about going off on exotic holidays together, or snowboarding together..... and if you do start to pay for all those things for him/her because you want to create good memories for the early days of your relationship, eventually you will probably start to feel anxious about looking forward to things that you know you are going to end up paying for in the end.

Am I talking from experience. Yes. It turns out that the woman in question was raised in a family where the children were encouraged to "keep out of the way of dad when he's doing the finances". So her and her siblings learned not to disturb their dad when he was doing the family finances, and in time Dad never got around to teaching them about looking after their own finances as he was working most of the time. Her dad told her later in life that she should get a mortgage, but he never took the time to explain what he meant.

Eventually she learned about finance from the banks when she was a student at uni - being offered credit cards instead of student loans (the banks never even suggested it to her) - then being offered bridging loans to meet the repayments, and eventually she's got £25K of debt consolidated at 7.9%. Public sector worker with 2 degrees earning 16K in a high responsibility job looking after violent criminals and sex offenders in a maximum security prison. getting promised carrots, being told she is very good at her job, but getting peanuts to take home, whilst the prisons are beyond full, yet the government makes cuts and diverts our taxes away from public services and "education, education, education" and moving that public money into paying for cluster bombs (British landmines - yes, we did use them) and war in Iraq. There's not much money saving happening when a leader discovers they have a blank cheque made out to them by the electorate. Indefinite war = unlimited budget.

Anyway, back to the topic, so my advice is don't ask the lady/man out for a meal until the 3rd date or so. And why not cook that meal yourself, show off your cooking skills and keep the cost down further! Try some less expensive ways of getting to know each other first. If you live in the city and don't have any pets, why not become an official dog walker for the local RSPCA dog pound, and invite your date to walk some of the dogs with you along a riverside perhaps. And no that's not an invitation to refer to women as anything canine thanks. my comments are not aimed against women, more against the tradition that men ask women out first, and that men pay for the meal on a first date. If more women actually did ask men on dates instead of waiting for "the one" and ending up with a player who is very adept at asking and charming them, having had lots of practice, before they move on leaving a broken heart.

Maybe online dating is a good way for a woman to proactively seek, and ask guys out, without having to worry about being seen as a !!!!!! - that way they can get to know someone and seek someone who actually has alot in common with them. The chances of finding someone in a bar, on any given night, who shares your interests and is a good match, are very slim chances.

so let's try and keep this forum what it should be - advice for money savers. there's lots of money saving ideas for days out, and that can include days out getting to know a potential partner - call it a date if you want to...

seven-day-weekend

I would be one of those 'skinflints' who would pay my own bill on a first date. Then no-one is beholden to anyone else.

If a serious relationship formed, then something more suitable could be worked out dependeing on the financial circumstances of the couple.

I'm female.

eyelinerprincess

Half and half (I'm female)

Former_MSE_Archna

Poll Started 16 January 2007. Do old dating traditions still apply? If a woman and man go out for dinner on a first date, who should pay? Which of these is closest to your view?

B. The man (I'm male)
25.7% - (1620 Votes)
I. Half each (I'm female)
13.2% - (833 Votes)
E. The woman should offer but the man still pay (I'm female)
11.5% - (727 Votes)
O. Whoever asked who out (I'm female)
10.6% - (670 Votes)
F. The woman should offer but the man still pay (I'm male)
9.2% - (583 Votes)
P. Whoever asked who out (I'm male)
8.6% - (547 Votes)
A. The man (I'm female)
8.6% - (542 Votes)
J. Half each (I'm male)
7% - (442 Votes)
K. Each pays for what they had (I'm female)
1.7% - (107 Votes)
L. Each pays for what they had (I'm male)
1.1% - (74 Votes)
H. The man should offer but the woman still pay (I'm male)
0.6% - (42 Votes)
M. The higher earner (I'm female)
0.5% - (32 Votes)
G. The man should offer but the woman still pay (I'm female) 0.4% - (29 Votes)
N. The higher earner (I'm male)
0.3% - (22 Votes)
D. The woman (I'm male)
0.2% - (17 Votes)
C. The woman (I'm female)
0% - (5 Votes)

Total Votes: 6292

skyranger

I've only just noticed this one but I do find it double standards. I think women expecting the man to pay is just wrong. If the man insists and the lady offers several times than they should say "Ok you buy the dinner and I'll get the drinks". Chilvarly and Equal Rights don't mix.

An interesting question should be should daytime TV be more man friendly :T

bertrude

Oh Sparkymarky..last of the big romantics!!

sparkymarky

Hi Bertrude! I know what you mean, my post was quite dry, but my point is that romance isn't something that you buy or pay for, and yet there's millions of adverts trying to sell you things that will make you more 'romantic'. Romance is not necessarily about being flash with your cash, sending expensive flowers, buying gold rings and dining at the Ritz. It's about spending quality time with someone and making them feel wanted and special, and listening to them, and that doesn't have to cost a penny. I think my point was that the path to romance is quite an expensive one.

thornyrose

Its quite simple, really - the person who invites the other out should pay, as they choose the location, make the booking and control how much is spent.

Yes, this probably means that men will end up paying more often than women, but men generally earn more anyway (and have fewer expenses), especially when you remember that men generally date slightly younger women.

Of course there are cheaper ways of getting to know someone, but it does show a measure of respect that you are interested enough to treat them to dinner (it doesnt have to be anywhere near £100 though!)

If the dinner guest enjoys their evening, then they should offer to reciprocate, and so on...

As a relationship develops, and its less of a one person "asking the other out", and more of a couple choosing to do things together, then most expenses would be halved, or take turns to pay - and this should happen naturally, rather than someone keeping a tariff!