canine heart disease help

MissGivings_2

Our beloved Cavalier is old and has heart disease now. He's on tablets and is doing very well, considering.

Trouble is we only have two months supply left as the canine cardiologist kindly arranged for three months supply before our insurance ran out in August. ( the policy covered one year of treatment)

She hinted to us that because these tablets are so expensive, that some people get alternatives online and gave us tacet approval to do the same.

But I'm scared of buying non-generic tablets online that may not be genuine and speeding the disease because it's not being treated or worse. I'd never forgive myself.

Does anyone know how do I find various alternative canine heart tablets without putting in the actual brand-name?

I won't mention the actual ones unless someone says it's OK to.)

MissGivings_2

maybe others have this problem too?

MissGivings_2

Good morning, anyone?

Elle7

I wouldn't do this.

Non-generic tablets may be the same, but are often different formulations. Many of the canine heart disease drugs need to be very carefully balanced to be successful, and if your dog is already on some and responding well, I'd keep them on these ones.

If the medication is Fortekor and Vetmedin, then they aren't too expensive too buy.

As for the heart disease itself, it might be worth discussing the potential changes with your vet. Depending on how bad the heart condition is at the moment, it's likely to go downhill, and more medication needed. If you swap for a weaker generic tablet, you'll need to take more of it, and it'll be a false economy.

I'd ask your vet for the cost of the treatment from them, and then for the cost of a prescription. You can get Vetmedin online for a much better price, and if your vet is willing to help you financially, they may be willing to write a prescription for free.

I've been through this a few times, and studied it, so I know how hard it is - my thoughts are with you and your beautiful dog. It's such a shame that the breed is so riddled with heart disease, as they are amazing dogs.

MissGivings_2

Elle7 wrote: »

I wouldn't do this.

Non-generic tablets may be the same, but are often different formulations. Many of the canine heart disease drugs need to be very carefully balanced to be successful, and if your dog is already on some and responding well, I'd keep them on these ones.

If the medication is Fortekor and Vetmedin, then they aren't too expensive too buy.

As for the heart disease itself, it might be worth discussing the potential changes with your vet. Depending on how bad the heart condition is at the moment, it's likely to go downhill, and more medication needed. If you swap for a weaker generic tablet, you'll need to take more of it, and it'll be a false economy.

I'd ask your vet for the cost of the treatment from them, and then for the cost of a prescription. You can get Vetmedin online for a much better price, and if your vet is willing to help you financially, they may be willing to write a prescription for free.

I've been through this a few times, and studied it, so I know how hard it is - my thoughts are with you and your beautiful dog. It's such a shame that the breed is so riddled with heart disease, as they are amazing dogs.

Thank you so much for your reply. You've confirmed my fears about going down the non-generic route. It's exactly what I was worried about.You just wouldn't know where it came from and I'd never forgive myself if I took a risk and made things worse.

The cavaliers apparently mow have a newer heart breeding programme but alas, it started after our Archie was born .

He's fantastic and had a wonderful life and given us such joy for nearly 12 years!

The disease is very advanced now and we've been given great support from our vet.

May I ask, if you know, what to expect at the very, very end?

Elle7

MissGivings wrote: »

Thank you so much for your reply. You've confirmed my fears about going down the non-generic route. It's exactly what I was worried about.You just wouldn't know where it came from and I'd never forgive myself if I took a risk and made things worse.

The cavaliers apparently mow have a newer heart breeding programme but alas, it started after our Archie was born .

He's fantastic and had a wonderful life and given us such joy for nearly 12 years!

The disease is very advanced now and we've been given great support from our vet.

May I ask, if you know, what to expect at the very, very end?

I lost my 12-year-old Cavalier to heart disease at Christmas. I'll be honest, the very end was not nice.

About a month before the end he started bloating up faster. I don't know if Archie is already on a diuretic - my dog's seemed to work fine, but then stopped, and he started looking a bit chubbier. He also seemed a bit more fussy with food, although he did go through phases like this all his life, so it might not be related.

He started becoming more restless, and didn't settle well. He'd walk around alot more, and sleep and lie down a lot less. He didn't seem unhappy, but must have been uncomfortable - at the time I thought if I kept him happy and he was with me he'd be okay, and he'd have a while left. Looking back, I wish I had taken him to the vets now to say goodbye.

I didn't, convinced he was okay, and within a few days he couldn't lie down at all. His heart wouldn't work when he tried to sleep, so he was awake constantly, couldn't settle, and eventually he started falling asleep while sat up.

Obviously as soon as I realized he couldn't lie down I took him in, but he had a magical recovery in the vets, so we took him home again. It didn't get any better - what happened to make him act so well was a mystery, but I took him again two days later.

The vet did offer to try and drain the fluid and up his heart meds, but it was time for him. It was heartbreaking, and I miss him chronically (I've cried my eyes out writing this) but he's in a better place now, and really, he did well reaching 12.

I think it's true that you'll know when its time. I just wasn't good enough at letting go!

Is it vetmedin that he is currently on? We got ours from here for a while, it was quite reasonably priced compared to our vets!

I've really debated whether to post this because I want to say it was okay, but I wish someone had told me what to expect so I'm going to be really honest and post it. I really hope this hasn't upset you...I'm studying canine hearts at the moment, and the veterinary science that surrounds medication and treatment, and it's a tough subject after what happened. I do think I understand it more now, though.

All the best,

E x

MissGivings_2

Elle7 wrote: »

I lost my 12-year-old Cavalier to heart disease at Christmas. I'll be honest, the very end was not nice.

About a month before the end he started bloating up faster. I don't know if Archie is already on a diuretic - my dog's seemed to work fine, but then stopped, and he started looking a bit chubbier. He also seemed a bit more fussy with food, although he did go through phases like this all his life, so it might not be related.

He started becoming more restless, and didn't settle well. He'd walk around alot more, and sleep and lie down a lot less. He didn't seem unhappy, but must have been uncomfortable - at the time I thought if I kept him happy and he was with me he'd be okay, and he'd have a while left. Looking back, I wish I had taken him to the vets now to say goodbye.

I didn't, convinced he was okay, and within a few days he couldn't lie down at all. His heart wouldn't work when he tried to sleep, so he was awake constantly, couldn't settle, and eventually he started falling asleep while sat up.

Obviously as soon as I realized he couldn't lie down I took him in, but he had a magical recovery in the vets, so we took him home again. It didn't get any better - what happened to make him act so well was a mystery, but I took him again two days later.

The vet did offer to try and drain the fluid and up his heart meds, but it was time for him. It was heartbreaking, and I miss him chronically (I've cried my eyes out writing this) but he's in a better place now, and really, he did well reaching 12.

I think it's true that you'll know when its time. I just wasn't good enough at letting go!

Is it vetmedin that he is currently on? We got ours from here for a while, it was quite reasonably priced compared to our vets!

I've really debated whether to post this because I want to say it was okay, but I wish someone had told me what to expect so I'm going to be really honest and post it. I really hope this hasn't upset you...I'm studying canine hearts at the moment, and the veterinary science that surrounds medication and treatment, and it's a tough subject after what happened. I do think I understand it more now, though.

All the best,

E x

Thank you so much for going ahead. I'm so grateful.

Writing that must have been so hard for you and I'm so sorry to bring it all back.
But I'm so grateful you decided to write it because what you said was so incredibly helpful and kind.

I can see from what you say that Archie has the beginnings of that restlessness you describe, for example.

He's on vetmedin, fortekor, prillactone for high blood pressure and the diuretic furosemide. Thank you for the link, that's wonderful.

When the heart disease began to advance our vet sent us to see the cardiologist at the vet hospital and her knowledge and understanding of Archie (and us) was absolutely fantastic. She explained what was happening in the heart and she helped us to prepare for the inevitable.

But somehow it only really hit me when we returned 3 months later for another checkup and the disease had advanced,so I had been feeling very worried and sad recently, hoping that the end will be easy and that I'd know what to do.

Now having your advice has been an amazing thing, because I feel much better.

Good luck with your studying. Having experienced it yourself gives you more insight into it all.

Having shared this with me, you have helped a fellow cavalier lover

Elle7

I'm really glad I didn't upset you!

I think it would have helped hugely knowing exactly what to expect. It's such a difficult topic, though, and I think I understand why people are reluctant to describe it

I'm glad Archie saw a good cardiologist. It's my aim at the moment to work with cavaliers and be able to help develop further medication, so it's a topic I'm interested in despite it still hurting!

The medications are all the same that my dog was on, you should find the majority if not all of them on that website, if it is any cheaper for you there.

You sound like you are doing the best for him. I'd recommend getting some of his favourite food in case he does go off his, as I was told the medications work much better when they are eating well.

If you need (or want) to talk about it, I'm always around (pretty much! :rotfl:)

All the best, for both of you

E x

MissGivings_2

Elle7 wrote: »

I'm really glad I didn't upset you!

I think it would have helped hugely knowing exactly what to expect. It's such a difficult topic, though, and I think I understand why people are reluctant to describe it

I'm glad Archie saw a good cardiologist. It's my aim at the moment to work with cavaliers and be able to help develop further medication, so it's a topic I'm interested in despite it still hurting!

The medications are all the same that my dog was on, you should find the majority if not all of them on that website, if it is any cheaper for you there.

You sound like you are doing the best for him. I'd recommend getting some of his favourite food in case he does go off his, as I was told the medications work much better when they are eating well.

If you need (or want) to talk about it, I'm always around (pretty much! :rotfl:)

All the best, for both of you

E x

No, not upset, very, very glad.
Loving a little dog is worth all the heartache in the world.

Thanks for your very kind offer- I will take you up on it some time if you don't mind.
(I had a peek at the link- what a relief! It's all there when we need it. Thank you so much)

Thank you for all your help. Best Wishes M x

snowman2_2

There are alternative vet brands to vetmedin and fortekor that may be cheaper. Cardisure is a (very) new version of Vetmedin but at the moment I can't get it any cheaper but that will probably change in the next few months. I suspect Vetmedin will reduce in price soon. There are cheaper alternatives to fortekor as well. Personally I still prefer Vetmedin & Fortekor as the flavoured versions are the most palatable and that is very important for long term compliance. The easier it is to give a drug, the more likely it is to get given, the better for your pet. My dog is on vetmedin, although i could get cheaper alternatives.

Prilactone is a different issue. We used to use human spironolactone for many years quite happily. Then a company brought out a vet version, ramped up the price but vets are legally obliged to use this version instead of the old version that we used for years. This upset a lot of vets but there is nothing we can do.

I wouldn't change away from that combination as it is fantastic for the tricky heart cases but your vet may be able to find cheaper alternatives of the same drug for you. Talk to your vet, mention your concerns and work with them to come up with a solution that works for your pet first & wallet second.

MissGivings_2

snowman2 wrote: »

There are alternative vet brands to vetmedin and fortekor that may be cheaper. Cardisure is a (very) new version of Vetmedin but at the moment I can't get it any cheaper but that will probably change in the next few months. I suspect Vetmedin will reduce in price soon. There are cheaper alternatives to fortekor as well. Personally I still prefer Vetmedin & Fortekor as the flavoured versions are the most palatable and that is very important for long term compliance. The easier it is to give a drug, the more likely it is to get given, the better for your pet. My dog is on vetmedin, although i could get cheaper alternatives.

Prilactone is a different issue. We used to use human spironolactone for many years quite happily. Then a company brought out a vet version, ramped up the price but vets are legally obliged to use this version instead of the old version that we used for years. This upset a lot of vets but there is nothing we can do.

I wouldn't change away from that combination as it is fantastic for the tricky heart cases but your vet may be able to find cheaper alternatives of the same drug for you. Talk to your vet, mention your concerns and work with them to come up with a solution that works for your pet first & wallet second.

I wouldn't dare change the combination myself but the cardiologist did on our second visit and she did a wonderful job!

I agree about the flavoured pills. Anything that makes it easier is welcome, isn't it?

Very interesting about aspects of the medicine.

Hope your dog continues to thrive under your care

Best Wishes