Virgin Trains - consumer rights advice required

Voyager2002

Be aware that train companies have a special legal status, and may not be legally liable in the same way as an ordinary business would be. So it might not be possible to back up threats of court action. So a negotiated solution is your best option.

Did you send Virgin a written statement from your firm's ICT people stating that the laptop could not be repaired? If not, please do so, since that is obviously an important piece of evidence, as is proof of the age and purchase price of the laptop.

You are highly unlikely to get anything for the loss of your time, and for your reduced effectiveness at work, apart from possible travel vouchers.

Chandler1987

GillsMan7 wrote: »

Were the tissues you were provided with not for cleaning your laptop, rather than cleaning their train? I can quite understand why they would not want to clean your laptop for you (risk of damage, etc).

Also, there appears to be a bit of inconsistency: you said that you had lost your work at 9pm on a Sunday, which would indicate a total system failure. Then Virgin said it powers on, which doesn't indicate a total system failure. Then, you said, "well, actually, it's just behaving a bit erratically", which doesn't, to me, suggest you lost any work at all.

It wasn't made clear what the tissues were for, they were just dropped on the table. But fair point about the damage, I guess potentially the problem could have been made worse from their point of view in the way you describe.

Regards your second point, I am not a liar. Also you have mis-quoted me in an effort to support this unwarranted and incorrect implication. I am quite surprised at the amount of totally unjustified sniping I seem to be having to fight my way through to get reasonable, helpful responses here. The laptop was leaked on at around 7pm. It did not instantly explode or anything so dramatic as to easily convince you of its status. So, not being an IT engineer or any other sort of expert in the field, I simply unplugged it from the mains for safety reasons, and then attempted to keep it as flat as possible for the remainder of my journey so as to not aid the spread of liquid. Reaching my destination at around 8.30 and home around half an hour later, I attempted to save my work. It was at this point (as I said around 9pm), that the machine hung, and then shut itself down abruptly. It independently powered up again, and again before I could do anything with it shut itself down. It would not then power up at all. Therefore, the work I had completed that weekend, in preparation for Monday, was lost to me at around 9pm on the Sunday, as previously stated. I hope that clears things up for you.

My employer's ICT engineers reported to me that the machine was 'knackered', and were actually able to show me the white-ish watermark where internal components had short-circuited. They had independently tested both the hard drive in another machine, and my machine with another hard drive; both were found to be faulty. Virgin having found the machine able to power up remains a mystery to me, as they have provided no further information on this matter.

Virgin are seemingly admitting liability for the machine's destruction having themselves sent it to a Hewlett Packard testing facility - as I stated in an earlier post they have sent a cheque in respect of the cost of the machine; the issue here is that it doesn't cover the machine plus my expense on postage.

Voyager2002 wrote: »

Be aware that train companies have a special legal status, and may not be legally liable in the same way as an ordinary business would be. So it might not be possible to back up threats of court action. So a negotiated solution is your best option.

Did you send Virgin a written statement from your firm's ICT people stating that the laptop could not be repaired? If not, please do so, since that is obviously an important piece of evidence, as is proof of the age and purchase price of the laptop.

You are highly unlikely to get anything for the loss of your time, and for your reduced effectiveness at work, apart from possible travel vouchers.

Thanks for this, very informative. Are you able to explain the special legal status any more?

Along with the laptop, I sent Virgin a purchase invoice for the laptop so they have cost and age information. As above they do seem to accept their responsibility regarding the laptop, only they haven't sent enough to cover what they say they have. If I draw this to their attention hopefully they will correct it?

It's disappointing to hear that you don't think they will compensate my loss. Are you writing from experience or is there a particular reason why you believe this?

Thanks.

custardy

you would be better removing your employers name from your post

Chandler1987

custardy wrote: »

you would be better removing your employers name from your post

I'm sorry where is that?

The only named companies mentioned here are Virgin with whom I have my complaints, and Hewlett Packard who I believe own the Compaq brand - my machine was a Compaq.

If I have inadvertantly mentioned anything else I would be grateful of its specific location.

Thanks.

wealdroam

Chandler1987 wrote: »

You are correct in assuming that I haven't specified an exact monetary amount I expect - I don't know how I quantify the value of reduced working capacity, stress and general inconvenience. Do you know of a mechanism for this? I asked in my letter that they make an offer they felt suitable for precisely this reason. I could of course perform a calculation based upon hourly professional fees, though again on what basis I would make this I am unsure. Is it time spent in correspondence? Is it any time I have felt 'inconvenienced' by having to find an alternative source of computing?

You need to speak to a lawyer/accountant about how to put a value on stress, inconvenience and reduced working capacity.
There are plenty of no win no fee people advertising all over the place.

'Feeling inconvenienced' probably has no value.

Having said that, you did get some train vouchers, so that probably covers all of those intangibles.

cr1mson

Sorry am I being totally thick here but surely this is a matter for your employers or their insurers to resolve. If it is their laptop and you were travelling for business and they paid for the ticket the contract with Virgin would be with your employers anyway. Have you really done without a laptop for so long?

If you want to accept the cheque I would start your letter by saying Thanking them for their interim payment and then go onto to explain why they are due more and how much.

C

Chandler1987

wealdroam wrote: »

You need to speak to a lawyer/accountant about how to put a value on stress, inconvenience and reduced working capacity.
There are plenty of no win no fee people advertising all over the place.

'Feeling inconvenienced' probably has no value.

Having said that, you did get some train vouchers, so that probably covers all of those intangibles.

The train vouchers were in respect of the trip itself - they are equal to the cost of my ticket. I guess I had hoped to resolve things without the no win-no fee brigade, but it's a valid point you make regarding professional input, so thanks.

cr1mson wrote: »

Sorry am I being totally thick here but surely this is a matter for your employers or their insurers to resolve. If it is their laptop and you were travelling for business and they paid for the ticket the contract with Virgin would be with your employers anyway. Have you really done without a laptop for so long?

If you want to accept the cheque I would start your letter by saying Thanking them for their interim payment and then go onto to explain why they are due more and how much.

C

Thanks for your comments. No you aren't being thick, I guess that how I have described things could well have implied that the laptop was belonging to my employer. In fact it was mine, and the trip was not a business trip; consequently I personally bought the ticket. Merely my employer has a team with ICT expertise whereas I do not and so as a favour they inspected the machine. I have been working as best I can on my home desktop, and have also managed to borrow a Laptop for a short period, but I do not have access to important specialised software on these machines, so my capacity for work has certainly been reduced, particularly so in the immediate aftermath.

I have actually spoken to Virgin this evening - they have agreed to reopen the case, specifically with regard to looking at an award of compensation. Fingers crossed.

wealdroam

Chandler1987 wrote: »

The train vouchers were in respect of the trip itself - they are equal to the cost of my ticket.

That's right, and they did actually get you from A to B so probably did not need to refund your ticket price.

Perhaps they gave you that amount to cover the inconvenience?

Chandler1987

wealdroam wrote: »

That's right, and they did actually get you from A to B so probably did not need to refund your ticket price.

Perhaps they gave you that amount to cover the inconvenience?

Perhaps so. I actually specified in my correspondence that I expected a refund for the cost of my ticket due to the generally shambolic service (laptop, rudeness, train late).

If they value my professional embarrassment, and three months of subsequent reduced working capacity at £31, well, I think that's an undervaluation. But I hadn't previously stated the value of the vouchers so I take your point, thanks.