Virgin Trains - consumer rights advice required

Chandler1987

Hello all,

This is my first post here. I often read the forums, but my latest struggle as a consumer has left me feeling more helpless than ever before, and as such I would like to consult the wisdom of the lovely people who regularly provide such helpful advice on these forums.

My ordeal started on the 26th June this year, when a fault on a Virgin Pendolino train caused the air conditioning system to leak onto and damage beyond repair my laptop. I complained to the onboard staff, who advised me I would need to 'put a claim in' - of course I intended to do this, but their hands-off approach should perhaps have served as a warning of what was to come.

I did indeed write to Virgin the next day (27th June), detailing the incident, and asking then specifically to respond on three main accounts - the shambolic (First Class!) service I had received, which included me being given serviettes to clean up air conditioning discharge myself, the destruction of the laptop, and the stress and inconvenience associated with having a weekend's worth of preparation for presenting in front of my work bosses lost at 9pm on a Sunday evening.

I received a response dated the 11th July, containing essentially number of apologies which seemed entirely standard and not personalised to my case, and which didn't answer a number of questions I had asked. There was also a request for me to send them the laptop. Of course I complied with this; I understand the requirement for an audit trail for assessing this sort of claim. They received the laptop on the 23rd July.

The next contact I received was an email on the 11th August, claiming that the laptop had been found to be function when connected to a power lead. I replied to this email the next day despite being on holiday, detailing how after extensive testing I and my employer's ICT engineers had come to the conclusion the machine was behaving erratically and that I did not wish to receive it back.

Since this email, I had had no further contact from Virgin, except for three broken promises that I would receive a 'full response' by deadlines which came and went.

Returning home after a weekend away, I now have a letter which offers another thinly-veiled dismissal of my complaints in the form of a generic apology. Attached are travel vouchers to the value of my ticket for the journey in question, and a cheque for an amount miscalculated such that it does not cover the retail cost of my laptop plus postage costs incurred. There is also a statement that they are 'unable to accede to my request for further compensation'.

:mad:

First of all, I do not want to appear ungrateful - I am pleased that Virgin seem to have admitted that they owe me a laptop. However, having spent nearly three months waiting for a resolution and considerable time, effort and energy chasing this resolution, I am incredibly disappointed that they feel it appropriate not to recompense me for any of this, not to mention the stress and inconvenience of being without my work computer for this whole time. Unfortunately I am not wealthy enough to have been able to purchase an extra one in lieu of the one destroyed.

I wanted to ask the opinion and advice of those of you I know will be reading this and may better understand my position with regard to consumer rights law and that sort of thing. On the one hand I could really do with cashing the cheque and buying a replacement computer, but I am worried that this would count as me 'accepting' their offer. I am of the opinion that certainly they owe me in terms of my reduced capacity to perform well at my job, both immediately after the event having lost my work for that weekend, and in the following period because of being without my computer. Also, perhaps in terms of my time and stress, but as I don't know if the intangible nature of these things makes them hard or impossible to claim for, I don't know for sure about this.

My mind is to write to them again letting them know of my disappointment, but I would like to include a credible threat to go to mediation or the small claims court; obviously this is only wise if my case is one where this could prove fruitful.

So, any advice or comments would be greatly apprecited. Thanks.

wealdroam

What did you expect the onboard train crew to do?
Did you expect them to have a aircon decontamination kit (whatever that is) readily available?

You haven't told us how old this laptop is/was.
Why do you think Virgin Trains owe you a new laptop?
If it is say two years old, they are probably allowed to decide it is no longer worth its full retail value and thus reduce the payment accordingly.

I do how ever think that they should've discussed their proposed resolution with you before sending a cheque.

I would not cash the cheque at this time.
Instead write to them detailing exactly what you expect in monetary terms, including expenses. It appears that you have not yet done this.

Chandler1987

wealdroam wrote: »

What did you expect the onboard train crew to do?
Did you expect them to have a aircon decontamination kit (whatever that is) readily available?

You haven't told us how old this laptop is/was.
Why do you think Virgin Trains owe you a new laptop?
If it is say two years old, they are probably allowed to decide it is no longer worth its full retail value and thus reduce the payment accordingly.

I do how ever think that they should've discussed their proposed resolution with you before sending a cheque.

I would not cash the cheque at this time.
Instead write to them detailing exactly what you expect in monetary terms, including expenses. It appears that you have not yet done this.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I expected the onboard crew to apologise. No I didn't expect them to have your made-up micktake, but a 'sorry' and an offer to help me rather than chucking a few serviettes towards me and leaving me to get on with cleaning up their train would have been appreciated. Do you apply the same low expectations of customer service to your own life that you seem to be encouraging me to uphold? I'm sorry if my initial post didn't provide enough detail such as you were able to be constructive in your response here.

The laptop was around six months old. I think they owe me one because as a direct result of their incompetence in mainting/correctly servicing their trains, my machine was damaged beyond economic repair. Would you not agree? Under what circumstance would you suggest a business is liable for damage it causes?

You are correct in assuming that I haven't specified an exact monetary amount I expect - I don't know how I quantify the value of reduced working capacity, stress and general inconvenience. Do you know of a mechanism for this? I asked in my letter that they make an offer they felt suitable for precisely this reason. I could of course perform a calculation based upon hourly professional fees, though again on what basis I would make this I am unsure. Is it time spent in correspondence? Is it any time I have felt 'inconvenienced' by having to find an alternative source of computing?

Once again I'm sorry if I wasn't precise enough with my original post - I tried and obviously in your eyes failed to find the balance between enough and excessive detail. But then I guess that's why there's that huge sign underneath my recently-registered username which says 'be especially nice' - did you miss that? I'd have thought it was obvious that I already feel quite aggrieved at this situation, so any help which doesn't come with a dose of the smugness and contempt Virgin have also been serving me would be, well, more helpful.

Thanks.

squack

I think you need to specify a monetary amount for your total claim

virgin trains are hardly going to make up a generous figure on your behalf

specify a higher amount and then hopefully agree on a compromise figure before court proceedings are initiated

:money:

jb66

Saying sorry is an admission of guilt, the crew had nothing to do with the air con

Wyndham

You say you can't specify an amount, but also that you're not happy with the amount offered. Therefore you must have some sort of figure in mind? Why not start there?

custardy

The laptop was around six months old. I think they owe me one because as a direct result of their incompetence in mainting/correctly servicing their trains, my machine was damaged beyond economic repair. Would you not agree? Under what circumstance would you suggest a business is liable for damage it causes?

so anything that fails in life can be directly attributed for incompetence in maintaining and servicing?

Chandler1987

squack wrote: »

I think you need to specify a monetary amount for your total claim

virgin trains are hardly going to make up a generous figure on your behalf

specify a higher amount and then hopefully agree on a compromise figure before court proceedings are initiated

:money:

Wyndham wrote: »

You say you can't specify an amount, but also that you're not happy with the amount offered. Therefore you must have some sort of figure in mind? Why not start there?

Thanks to squack and Wyndham, you seem to be saying the same sort of thing and it makes sense; I will make sure this is part of my continuing strategy.

jb66 wrote: »

Saying sorry is an admission of guilt, the crew had nothing to do with the air con

It was Virgin's fault. Surely you aren't suggesting I check all the componentry of the train before I board it? How else could I have forseen or avoided this? The crew are there to perform a customer service function and in my opinion failed to adequately carry out their duties.

custardy wrote: »

Quote:
The laptop was around six months old. I think they owe me one because as a direct result of their incompetence in mainting/correctly servicing their trains, my machine was damaged beyond economic repair. Would you not agree? Under what circumstance would you suggest a business is liable for damage it causes?

so anything that fails in life can be directly attributed for incompetence in maintaining and servicing?

No, of course not. This can though, clearly. Why are you being so facetious?


Thanks again to those sincere posters who are being of great assistance.

custardy

Chandler1987 wrote: »

No, of course not. This can though, clearly. Why are you being so facetious?


Thanks again to those sincere posters who are being of great assistance.

clearly? how do you work that out?
parts and components can and do fail regardless of maintenence

Chandler1987

custardy wrote: »

clearly? how do you work that out?
parts and components can and do fail regardless of maintenence

The spillage of fluid was caused by the condensation reservoir not being emptied when the train was readied for departure. It was a warm day and therefore the air-conditioning had been running on the train's previous journey and was also on the one I was making. As a result, because this part of the routine pre-departure service/maintenance of the train was not carried out, it leaked all over my computer.

GillsMan7

Were the tissues you were provided with not for cleaning your laptop, rather than cleaning their train? I can quite understand why they would not want to clean your laptop for you (risk of damage, etc).

Also, there appears to be a bit of inconsistency: you said that you had lost your work at 9pm on a Sunday, which would indicate a total system failure. Then Virgin said it powers on, which doesn't indicate a total system failure. Then, you said, "well, actually, it's just behaving a bit erratically", which doesn't, to me, suggest you lost any work at all.