Who's considered emmigrating because of tax?

JimmyTheWig

gadgetmind wrote: »

Yes, but all that's really happening, is that they are slowly being exposed to a 20% tax rate and still get their personal allowance, hence low tax overall.

While that is true they still have the same incentive (or lack of incentive) to earn that extra pound in order to receive just 23p of it.
We are always told that with the 50% tax rate there is no incentive for high earners to work harder - what about those of us earning much less but paying the much higher marginal rate?

gadgetmind

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

what about those of us earning much less but paying the much higher marginal rate?

We could address both problems by ensuring that everyone got a personal allowance and no-one received tax credits. Simples!

FTBFun

gadgetmind wrote: »

We could address both problems by ensuring that everyone got a personal allowance and no-one received tax credits. Simples!

I'd prefer a more gradual rise in the bands, something like 10%/20%/30%/40%. It's too sharp a rise at the moment.

gadgetmind

FTBFun wrote: »

I'd prefer a more gradual rise in the bands, something like 10%/20%/30%/40%. It's too sharp a rise at the moment.

Yes, and make that 40% on anything more than twice what I earn.

Hey, am I getting the hang of this "tax the rich, how dare they subsidise me!" thing yet?

Randvegeta

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

For every extra pound you earn (gross) your tax credits go down by 41p.
As well as paying 20p income tax and 12p NI on that pound.

So for every pound you earn the amount of money in your pocket only goes up by 27p - therefore they have an effective marginal rate of 73% tax.

I find this hard to believe. Can you provide an example with numbers?

Someone earning £10k /yr is NOT paying £7.3k in tax!

Pennywise

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Nearly as high as that for those earning around £30k who, for every additional pound they earn, lose 20p in income tax, 12p in NI and 41p in tax credits. That's 73% taxation for them.

Don't forget which idiot/certified nutcase brought this into place - it was our good friend Gordon Brown, who wouldn't accept his mistake and made little (if any) attempt to rectify it despite the opportunity over many years. It was he who decided to bribe large numbers of the electorate by giving them generous tax credits. To rectify, we do need to scrap tax credits as a starting point - hopefully this will be part of the universal credit system. But too wrongs don't make a right, just because a relatively low earner suffers 73% marginal rate, doesn't mean it's right for higher earners to pay more - that's the politics of jealousy and envy. If a higher tax rate brings in less tax, then it's clearly wrong to do.

JimmyTheWig

Randvegeta wrote: »

I find this hard to believe. Can you provide an example with numbers?

Someone earning £10k /yr is NOT paying £7.3k in tax!

Sorry, I'm talking marginal rate. I.e. the rate they pay on an additional pound they earn.

Lets say someone earning £10,000.00 pays £505.00 income tax and £333.00 NI. Lets say they receive £2,000.00 tax credits (completely plucked out of thin air). So they take home £11,162.00.
Lets say they get the chance to earn an extra pound.
They now earn £10,001.00 and pay £505.20 income tax and £333.12 NI. Their tax credits will go down to £1999.59. So they take home £11,162.27. 27p more by earning that extra pound.

zfrl

FTBFun wrote: »

MINE doesn't! I'm not that lucky.

For every additional pound beyond £150,000, 52p goes to the taxman. The personal allowance is progressively withdrawn from £100,000 so that's gone too.

Fair enough.

But it is still not 50% of your income unless your income is above £900,000 and you don't contribute to a pension. (Checked using an online calculator - feel free to correct me.)

JimmyTheWig

Pennywise wrote: »

But too wrongs don't make a right, just because a relatively low earner suffers 73% marginal rate, doesn't mean it's right for higher earners to pay more.

I agree. But if we only want to sort out one of the two situations because of the lack of incentive to work it's the low earner who we need to sort out first.

Randvegeta

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Sorry, I'm talking marginal rate. I.e. the rate they pay on an additional pound they earn.

Lets say someone earning £10,000.00 pays £505.00 income tax and £333.00 NI. Lets say they receive £2,000.00 tax credits (completely plucked out of thin air). So they take home £11,162.00.
Lets say they get the chance to earn an extra pound.
They now earn £10,001.00 and pay £505.20 income tax and £333.12 NI. Their tax credits will go down to £1999.59. So they take home £11,162.27. 27p more by earning that extra pound.

Okay, so let me get this straight.

You think it is unfair for someone to work more (on a lower income) because they are effectively only getting 27p per extra £1 they earn? Why is it at all fair that they get £1,162.27 /yr more than they earn?

They don't pay a damn bit of tax! They are in fact, sucking money from REAL tax payers.