Changing Pin Number on a CC???

James

jamalfatty wrote:

Fraud will never disappear completely, chip and pin has reduced the amount of cardholder present fraud by a quite substantial amount, however this has had the knock on effect of cardholder not present fraud increasing, thus the recent launch of 'verified by visa' etc

At the last count overall plastic card dropped by 5%. What wasn't highlighted in this drop was the fact that fraud at ATMs jumped by a massive 37%. (Source: APACS Card Fraud The Facts).

The Industry held up the French Chip & PIN system as an example, saying that C&P reduced card fraud in France by 80%. Unfortunately there are great differences between what we (The Brits) have ended up with and the French System.

Fraud has migrated away from retailers who don't give a hoot who uses a card as long as it's verifed by a PIN - to ATMs and as you rightly say CNP fraud.

The real worry is liability shift - onto YOU the cardholder.

Therefore using a PIN is not in the consumers interest.

More Frauds in Hull & Shrewsbury.

specs_3

specs wrote:

PinkPig,
You have just stirred up a hornets nests. Look for cover.

I warned you!

Astaroth

Can someone please take the soap box away from James (again)

It wouldnt be so bad if they actually responded to comments, would debate rather than just posting links and actually was correct

moonrakerz

specs wrote:

moonrakerz


Chip and PIN was meant to be the master stroke from the banks which would wipe out all fraud !<snip>

Which bank(s) made that statement?

Most of them !

I have said before on this site that I believe that the banks actually like a certain level of fraud. It enables them to write off money without too many questions being asked and it enables them to do things that their customers don't like and be able to say it is necessary to "cut down fraud".

The seriousness of their intent was demonstrated some years back when one of the Scottish banks introduced cards with the holder's photo on. Their fraud level dropped by 90%. The vast majority of banks refused to follow suit - saying things like: "its too expensive" and "photos that small aren't good enough to identify someone".

I had one from the N & P (I think) with photo and signature built INTO the card, they got taken over by one of the big boys and they cards disappeared.

Totally agree with another comment:- PINs are not in the consumer's interest - I wonder whose ?

Astaroth

moonrakerz wrote:

The seriousness of their intent was demonstrated some years back when one of the Scottish banks introduced cards with the holder's photo on. Their fraud level dropped by 90%.

Source to prove this?

Info I saw showed it had very little impact which is backed up by the fact that my g/friend at the time used my switch card which had my photo on it many times in different stores and was never once questioned on name/ title, signature (pre chip and pin days) or photo

specs_3

Moonrakerz,

You say most banks said that chip and pin would wipe out all fraud.
Let's say there are only 20 banks in the U.K. could you point me to 11(most) of the banks press release/ interviews that made this claim, You are sitting on a mine of information here.

Astaroth,

Your source to prove this is ludicrous, you actually state an instance and then tell us that it was pre chip and pin days.

James

The following reportedly (Washington Times I beleive, circa 1993/1994) happened in the States:

A few months ago there were some U.S. news stories on a very effective
"physical" attack on ATM security: crooks were setting up fake ATM

machines in shopping malls. People would put in their card and type in
their PIN, and the machine would flash a little "This transaction can
not be completed" message and spit out the card. The fake ATM would
just store the information on the card's mag stripe along with the PIN
and wait for the crooks to come back for the data. Very effective --
especially because people expect computers to "screw up" and send them
packing -- they were probably glad "at least it didn't eat my card!"
Little did they know...

Astaroth

specs wrote:

Astaroth,

Your source to prove this is ludicrous, you actually state an instance and then tell us that it was pre chip and pin days.

I would suggest that you put your specs on and read the quote I was responding to. At the same time you will see how ludicrous and inane your comments are as I never quoted a source and only said my personal experience backed up the information I had previously seen.

I can hardly comment on photos being on cards in a chip and pin world when the photo cards were stopped prior to the introduction of chip and pin?

specs_3

Specs firmly on now, perfect sight has highlighted a poor use of the English language. Sorry

moonrakerz

specs wrote:

Moonrakerz,

You say most banks said that chip and pin would wipe out all fraud.
Let's say there are only 20 banks in the U.K. could you point me to 11(most) of the banks press release/ interviews that made this claim, You are sitting on a mine of information here.

Astaroth,

Your source to prove this is ludicrous, you actually state an instance and then tell us that it was pre chip and pin days.

Presume you work for a bank ???