Another PPC Chickens out when a Defence is put up!

esmerobbo

They do sometimes hope for a undefended win, this one for £600 worth of invoices, but still didn't have the bottle to try it out in front of a Judge!

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=61077&pid=624539&mode=threaded&start=#entry624539

torontoboy45

damn! I can't raise pepipoo. give us an outline, if you will.

esmerobbo

Moved the thread to! http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=61077&pid=624539&mode=threaded&start=#entry624539

Here is the post!

In 2009 I was given a ticket by Minster Baywatch, the PPC who run the car park of a local hospital I work in. As I was only there on work business I felt morally I should not pay, and that when I explained this to them they would no doubt waive the charge. They didn't, I argued with them and over the course of the next two years an increasingly unpleasant and stressful situation developed, ultimately resulting in them issuing a county court claim for £660. As the standard member of the public I predictably crapped myself a bit, then came on here to ask for advice (see the thread I began around April of this year). I received immediate and very helpful, sensible, good quality legal advice. As nervous as I was about following the advice - 'just in case' - I did, and contested their claim.

They initially agreed to arbitration, which I declined, satisfied that I would either win or lose, but that I wanted to face them in court and see how a judge dealt with their frankly intimidating, explicitly profiteering approach. The date for them to pay their hearing fees came and went. The court sent them a letter asking them how they wished to proceed - essentially inviting them to continue with their legal pursuit of the money they so clearly felt I owed them. They did not pay, or get back in touch, and the case has now been stayed.

The clear message from all this is that they are profiteering, cowardly bullies, and that (as advised) they clearly do not have anywhere near as solid a legal leg to stand on as they try to claim. If you find yourself in a similar position, my advice would be to take the advice of people on here.

I'd particularly like to thank certain people, who shall remain nameless, but who gave an awful lot of their own time and effort to essentially help a stranger, and to make sure a wrong wasn't done. You know who you are. Thank you.

torontoboy45

thanks for that.

yet more evidence that when it goes to the wire PPC's - even when armed with RK details - squeal like schoolgirls at a girls aloud concert and run away.

***newbies*** - the above post is required reading.

think about it: if you ran a business that suffered a loss at the hands of a 3rd party and there was sufficient grounds for legal redress, wouldn't you follow your instincts and chase the money?

minster baywatch didn't suddenly come over all beneficent. they didn't forget the date of the court hearing. they didn't stay at home because the cat was sick. they ran away because they knew that the chance of getting this case past a judge when faced with a good defence was zilch/zero/nowt/zip.

for a PPC 'fine' to get this far is rare. very rare. their success rate is pitifully small, confined to a handful (and some of those have been suspected of set-ups).

don't be fooled. don't be bullied. don't pay.

esmerobbo

Its possibly the NHS trusts putting the pressure on the PPC to have a go, as I bet the PPC when they have offered their services have told the trust we will enforce our tickets all the way to court!

As stated newbies should not be worried about these very rare cases, there is always some reason beyond normal that they may have a go at court, look at this one £600 worth of invoices. However after receiving the defence they drop their claim or don't respond to the court.

I know a lot of newbies think they will be the chosen one who does get a summons, but the likelihood is you will win the lottery first!

torontoboy45

esmerobbo wrote: »

Its possibly the NHS trusts putting the pressure on the PPC to have a go, as I bet the PPC when they have offered their services have told the trust we will enforce our tickets all the way to court!

As stated newbies should not be worried about these very rare cases, there is always some reason beyond normal that they may have a go at court, look at this one £600 worth of invoices. However after receiving the defence they drop their claim or don't respond to the court.

I know a lot of newbies think they will be the chosen one who does get a summons, but the likelihood is you will win the lottery first!

and what does the NHS trust - assuming it's up to speed on this - think now? maybe the committee that went with the idea that a PPC could 'deliver' won't ....no, wait...can't do what it said on the tin won't be best chuffed.

more fool them, for jumping into bed with a mickey-mouse PPC outfit.

or maybe not.

maybe the trust is happy to use these scammers, based on past receipts. maybe it's not too worried about a de facto defeat in absentia by the PPC just as long as it gets its cut from the scam tickets. who knows?

but there's a moral compass involved here somewhere. I just know there is...

esmerobbo

I have seen [I will try and locate it] an FOI request for Aintree hospital were they claim they have pursued 360 odd non payments, they didn't make clear what they meant by enforcement, whether they meant passing it to Trethowans or issuing court summons! Given that they recently had three, well and truly kicked out, they issued a further one a few weeks ago.
In the same request it was asked how much it had cost to pursue a case. Again they admitted the last one was £289.62 to try and enforce an £50 charge!
I think with Hospital charges they are trying to validate them, by using the courts but so far its backfired on them! In Aintree's case badly as they have described them as penalty charges!

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/car_parking_3

How much money the Trust has spent in total in pursuing the above claim?
£289.62



How are these costs broken down?
Debt - £50;

Interest - £7.12;

Court fee - £30;

Fixed solicitor costs for issuing - £50.

Instruction fee - £10;

DVLA charge - £2.50;

Agent's fee for attending the hearing - £140

robredz

Not a very cost effective use of resources is it.... close on £300, to chase £50.....................

esmerobbo

robredz wrote: »

Not a very cost effective use of resources is it.... close on £300, to chase £50.....................

Which for all we know 360 times £289 = £104.000 how many nurses would that pay for?

vax2002

Minster Parking are just a mail drop office linked to a ex council house in acomb York.
They provide free all in kits on the internet consisting of Fake parking tickets, screen wallets, carbon pads and some signs to stick up, an all in scam your clients/ customers package so you can send that trolley boy or lazy porter to slap those tickets on now for a whole list of infringements.
Then they offer you a cut of the profits advertising it can be as much as £3-4k a WEEK !
Now if you are a hard up business in a good spot near town, why bother with stock, VAT, if you can turn over a couple of K a week with fake parking tickets.
Minster then sell under the guise we always follow through to court, no they do not, the bluff stops once the defendant comes out fighting, Minster parking know that a local news agency have been on to them for a while now and the first case they loose will make national papers and just think of the harm that would do to the trade in DIY fake parking tickets.
This is a scam of impersonation of authority and as seen once you call them out from behind the fake hats and hi-viz jackets, they sell them as well, they scurry back under the rock they came out from.
Make no mistake, the fake parking ticket scammers do not like been called out to face the bluffs they dish out.
Just like all bullies, call them out in public and they run...

Kite2010

It's a shame the defendant can't turn around and ask for costs from the court from having the PPC chicken out.