Who owns 'my' cellar?

Emmzi

Tommoh wrote: »

The local authority option is certainly worth pursuing.

There is no way I would really do it.

But I would pretend you would.

Clearlier

This is a genuinely bizarre scenario. Your neighbour must have planned it for quite a long time. Quite disturbing behaviour. It's a little bit like the 'nuisance' law suits they seem to have in the US where the suer banks on the company being sued deciding to settle even though there's no merit because it's cheaper than fighting the case (perhaps it happens here too). She's banking on the fact that you are the one who wants to do something whereas she's happy to sit tight indefinitely

Have you considered negotiating with your neighbour in respect of selling to her brother? It might be worth your while seeing what you can get that way?

Alternatively if you were feeling nasty you could wait until the brother had paid out on survey and legal fees before refusing to sell or...

Perhaps most deviously hope that the brother will require mortgage and thus a lease extension (you could always inquire as part of a negotiation in a chain, how quickly can they close the sale?), wait until the lease extension came through and then halt the sale. The obvious risk with this is the behaviour of your already known to be odd neighbour after you were to do this. I wouldn't do it but then I tend to play the percentages.

Whatever you do please make sure that you stay on the right side of the law (I expect that you would anyway but there's serious temptation here). Moral high ground on the other hand is wasted and it's difficult to see you how you could go lower than her!

Good luck, I can only imagine how frustrating and stressful this must be.

JQ.

Clearlier wrote: »

Perhaps most deviously hope that the brother will require mortgage and thus a lease extension (you could always inquire as part of a negotiation in a chain, how quickly can they close the sale?), wait until the lease extension came through and then halt the sale. The obvious risk with this is the behaviour of your already known to be odd neighbour after you were to do this. I wouldn't do it but then I tend to play the percentages.

That's a great idea. :T

hanwellmike

emg wrote: »

I don't know if this helps but I own 50% share of freehold on a block of three flats. I live in the top flat and there is a loft. When we bought our freehold there was some discussion about the loft as officially it forms part of the freehold and isnt included in the lease for my flat. The solicitor and surveyor told me that no one else can access the loft as the sole access is through my flat with no rights of way. In theory the other freeholder could object to me using it but it's unlikely/how would they know/why would they/etc. They suggested to me that the only issue would be if I converted the loft space into living space in which case the other freeholder would be entitled to object or ask for a share of any increase in value.

I have very similar situation. I have always used the loft for storage but I have no plans for anything else. Key issue is that access to the loft is only via my flat so no one can lay claim to that area. I never felt I owned the loft space as it is not really a habitable area. If I were the OP I would definitely think twice about offering storage space to other leaseholders. OP may not be able to actually prove ownership but will have free use of that space.

[Deleted User]

Yorkie1 wrote: »

Ever heard of blackmail? Sounds rather like it to me...

Definitely.

I hope you're keeping a detailed record of all your encounters with her = dates, times, what you said, what she said ?

You have no idea how this is going to end, and it would be very useful to have this ...

[Deleted User]

JQ. wrote: »

That's a great idea. :T

I think so too - either this option

OR

Consult a solicitor, get the ownership of the cellar clearly defined in writing - send her a copy with a letter giving her 7 days to clear her boxes out of YOUR cellar, and her bookcase our of YOUR hallway, or you will have the legal right to dispose of them (your solicitor can advise on wording or, even better, get him/her to send the letter); THEN rent it out. (Oh yes, and get her/his advice about that thinly veiled blackmail threat too - and maybe even talk to your local Community Police officer, so that there's a record of it).

If she doesn't move her stuff, and you have to do it, I'd STRONGLY suggest involving someone-else in the process of actual moving it - the local CPO; a couple of "heavies" with a van, etc. Don't try to do it on your own. You're clearly a nice couple; you've been kind to her in the past and, unfortunately, she's interpreted that as weakness - that she (and her brother) can push you around (her mental health doesn't sound great either, so her perception of reality may be distorted). She and her brother need to see that you're not on your own in dealing with them; make them aware that you have loads of support.

You know her better than we all do; use that knowledge and your "gut instinct" and go for the solution that feels the best one. It's miserable living next door to a bad neighbour - your house needs to be your sanctuary from the world, not the greatest source of stress. It's not good for your health.

Keep us posted ! Good luck.

Ulfar

I think your leases are quite clear in that her lease states she owns from below her floor to your ceiling and you own the structures below your floor.

The fact that when the property was built they put stair access in your flat to the cellar backs this up, coupled with the fact she has no right of access.

As for the lease extension serve the required notice. The agreement on price is up to a majority of the freeholders and it sound like you have got 2 out of 3 votes so the nightmare lady can take a flying leap.

vax2002

You are under no legal obligation to store anything, remove the boxes at once and deposit them outside her door.
When She starts, simply retort, ARGUMENT OVER LOVE !

Ulfar

Something else to consider is that whatever the lease extension cost is worked out to be you will get a third back as you own 1/3 of the freehold.

Soot2006

You could always borrow my dog and then allow her access ...
I'd advise booking yourself a holiday though ... and a cleaning company for the blood stains ... oh and a key for me please so I can get my dog before the police do ...